"Augment summonning"


Homebrew and House Rules


Summons are pretty bad in pathfinder 2e, to put it lightly. Due to the way they heighten, they need to always occupy your highest spell slots, and due to the way number increase with levels, even there they are often very underwhelming, as they lag 4 to 5 level bellow you. The only uses for summon is on low level, where the gap isn't as wide, and for summonning "bards", or as I call them "buffing totem", creatures summonned here only because they can provide buffing ability instead of directly helping you in battle.

On top of everything, summonning spells usefullness vary depending on wether you are on an odd or even level. All spellcaster receive a minor power boost on odd level, when they unlock a new level of spells, but they still increase their spell attack and spell DC on even level, which mean that their spell "keep up" with the increase in resistance/AC of your foes. Summonning spells on the other hand, get no bonus at all on even level, which worsen them once more.

However, there is a variant were summons are better (but still not overpowered), which is the "proficiency without level" variant. This "tighten" the number, and make the summons "keeps up" better with the foe you are facing. They are still 4 or 5 level behind you, but not adding the level to every number effectively give them a "+4/+5" bonus to each of their stats. They are still behind, for creature statistic increase faster than their level, but not as drastically. However, using that variant rule just to make summon betters is the same as using a bazooka to kill a fly, warping the whole game just to accomodate this one ability.

This however gave me the idea of "fixing" summons by mimicking that rule for summons only. Hence this homebrewed feat (that should be made unavailable if you are already playing in a proficiency without level game).

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AUGMENT SUMMONNING ◇ - - FEAT 4
Traits : Cleric, Druid, Metamagic, Summoner, Witch, Wizard

You manipulate magical energies to empower the creature you call forth. If your next action is to cast a summonning spell, it cost one focus point to cast it.

Any creature summoned by such spell share your level, increasing it's statistics by the difference between it's original level and your own. This does not affect the summon HP, but it does it's AC, resistances, attack bonus, skills, perception, as well as all of it's DC.

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The feat end up giving a buff to every summon, and that buff is comparatively "bigger" for low level summons (summonning a -1 creature on level 20 give it +21 in each of it's stat, while summonning a level 15 creature only give it +5), but high level summons should still be better as statistic increase faster than simply "one per level" (and because HP don't increase with this feat). It should however make slotting "low level" summon spell better and sometime worth slotting, instead of forcing them into "highest level slot only".

The "cost one focus to cast" was made to avoid "spamming summons", which seems to be the biggest fear of people that don't want them to be "too good". That way, you can't continuously summon "on level" creatures during a single encounter, as you are limited by your focus pool. I limited it to the classes that I felt had the "strongest thematical ties" to summonning, but other spellcasting class could still access it throught multiclass at level 8 (and since it's homebrew, you may allow other classes if you feel that they deserve such feat too).

Also, I called it "augment summonning" in reference of the PF1 feat, forgetting that it's also a (very underwhelming) wizard focus spell. You may call it "superior summonning" instead if you want.


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I don't think we need a homebrew feat to make summons better. Because they are so bad in a way that spell itself need to be edited.

So instead just add your last paragraph to summoned trait (I made some changes based in young companion proficiencies rule):

Quote:
A summoned creature uses same level of the caster to determine its proficiency bonuses. Adjust all proficiency based bonuses like attacks, DCs, saving throws and perception and skills to meet the same level to you.

Notice that I didn't change anything else like stats, damage, hit points or spell in order to avoid it compete to close to PCs or companions.

This changes also allow that summon casted by lower level spells could be used too but they are more fragile (less HP), weaker (less dmg) and even may have less DCs/attack due some lower proficiency grade. But they still are viable as potential distractions.


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YuriP wrote:


Quote:
A summoned creature uses same level of the caster to determine its proficiency bonuses. Adjust all proficiency based bonuses like attacks, DCs, saving throws and perception and skills to meet the same level to you.

Notice that I didn't change anything else like stats, damage, hit points or spell in order to avoid it compete to close to PCs or companions.

This changes also allow that summon casted by lower level spells could be used too but they are more fragile (less HP), weaker (less dmg) and even may have less DCs/attack due some lower proficiency grade. But they still are viable as potential distractions.

I think you may have misread the feat, because that's exactly what it does, the feat don't change damage, HP or ability modifier either, just the thing that are typically increased by an amount equal to the level (and wich are lowered in a "proficiency without level" game).

As for making it baseline, I agree that given how weak summons are right now, it's warranted. The only reason I made it a feat was for ease of implementation in a game, you'd have an easier time convincing your group of adding an homebrew feat, rather than convincing them of changing a rule outright.


Scarablob wrote:
I think you may have misread the feat, because that's exactly what it does, the feat don't change damage, HP or ability modifier either, just the thing that are typically increased by an amount equal to the level (and wich are lowered in a "proficiency without level" game).

IIt's not like I misread I just reinforced to try to prevent complains about "this will make summons too strong" and similar complains.

I understand now your point. Put this as feat may help to convince some players.


The strongest part of summons is already their special abilities like Grab, Knockdown, skunk spray etc. – things that don't care about damage. If I'm a level 11 Time Mage caster with this rules change and summon something like a Stegosaurus, it will have a 25% chance to restrain (and ofc 50% to grab) an on-level creature with a High fortitude save every round, a better chance than even the most specialized character build can muster at that level. It would probably be fun for a while, but balanced not so much.


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You say "the strongest part", but the thing is, to me they're not the strongest, they're the only choice available, because right now, summon are useless except for these rare edge case. Edge case that dissapear as your level rise, because unlike other spells that scale with your spell DC/spell attack, summons never get stronger. The skunk is okay at level 3, but all but useless at level 11 where everything have had their forfitude save increased tremendously, but the skunk DC stayed the same.

But let's adress your fear that it would be too good. Taking your stegosaurus as an exemple (and ignoring the fact that RAW it cannot grab, shove or trip anyone because it have no hand), it have +20 to athletic, not shabby at all for a level 7 creature. However, a level 11 player can have up to 22 without counting any item bonus (11 for level, 6 for master proficiency, 5 for strenght), so it's still a fair bit bellow what a player can do, and it costed you a top level spell and three actions at the very least to get this bellow rate chance at grappling. With this change, your stegosaurus now get +24 athletic, which is actually on par with martials with an item bonus, which thus allow you to trade three actions and a highest level spell slot to attempt a grapple check "on par" with your martial companion.

But you are indeed right,, the flexibility would indeed be "too good", since you'd have a wide array of various creature you can call forth, making summon spells a giant toolbox that could mimic a lot of spells. However, that's were the "summonned" rule come into play, the fact that players don't actually get to control their summon directly.

"It generally attacks your enemies to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with it, you can attempt to command it, but the GM determines the degree to which it follows your commands."

This is RAW. Now most people elect to ignore this rule, to give the GM a bit less work, and because summons are already underpowered enought as is, but it is the rule. If you are to play with this feat, I'd advise that you do enforce this rule, to prevent summons to be used as instant magical toolbox. Make the summon attack the turn it come down instead of instantly doing whatever you wanted them to do. Reward PC who plan for a way to communicate with their summon (learning sylvan if they intend to call fey, infernal if they intend to cal devils, necessiting a handle animal check to command summoned animals beyond simply ordering them to attack, etc).

This make summon better all around because now they are usefull in more way than being simply sprung forth in order to use their one "not shabby" ability, and it make them more "alive", and fuel the summonner fantasy more. It also help bridge the gap between the odd level (were you unlock a new tier of summons) and even ones (where you get literally nothing and your summons are a level behind with no potency increase what so ever), making them more balanced accross the board. Finally, it make slotting summon spells in other slot than the very highest one actually usefull, because even tho a level 1skunk will still be globaly worse than a level 7 stegosaurus on level 11, it will still have some use.


Fine, if someone's gonna complain about hands, use the Frost Giant or Cloud Giant as an example. Same thing, bonuses scaled up to caster level are too strong. Arguably even by RAW, because if the GM decides that your giant won't grapple even though that's its best move, then he is not in fact making the summon attack your enemies to the best of its ability as RAW say he should (absent any command).

Also, somehow I don't think that shifting the situation from 'your summon is kinda mediocre numerically, so I'll at least let you control it however you want' to 'I know you've built this thing to be good at grappling but screw that, it's just gonna Strike twice instead of doing what would be best' is going to really feel satisfying for the conjurer.

If I had to buff anything about summoning, I'd probably consider just letting people summon level-3 creatures with max level slots and see how that goes. And for the love of god, don't take over control of the cool thing the player is trying to do in order to roll dice against yourself while they are twiddling their thumbs. The rule is just meant to be a failsafe when players try to give their summons silly commands.


I like your feat. It makes sense within the game system mechanics. First level summons _should_, like first level attack spells, be able to scale up to some extent. Sure, a burning hands spell cast by a 9th level caster will still do the same damage as the spell cast by a 1st level caster, but the chances "to hit", as it were, scale.

It only makes sense that the summons scale in this way as well. Their base "proficiency bonus" should scale with the caster, though it's effects, like HP and damage, stay at it's slot level base.

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