Is Pyrotechnic Eruption overpowered?

[Mark Hoover 330]

Pyrotechnic Eruption is a Wizard 4 spell. A player in my megadungeon campaign has a NG Humanoid (Human) Wizard (Fire Elementalist)11 PC with some extra cash beyond WBL. He is asking me if his PC can find anyone in town willing to let him copy this spell into his spellbook.

The reason I ask the question in the title is: at his level, this PC is dealing 19d6 Fire damage to a single victim (DC 21 Ref save every round for half damage) over the course of 4 rounds; for 3 of those rounds, 8d6 of that damage is happening in the background with no Concentration check or Move action required by the PC.

That means that round 1, the PC casts Pyrotechnic Eruption; if the foe is susceptible to Fire damage at all and he beats their SR, that foe is taking 11d6 Fire (Ref for half). Then rounds 2-4, the foe continues suffering the Fire damage from PE but is also taking Scorching Ray, or Fireball, or any number of other Fire damage spells in addition to the original spell.

Am I being too paranoid, or should I say this is one of the rare times he can't find someone in the Large City with all the arcane casters in it to sell him the spell?

[Java Man]

That same spell slot could be used for an empowered scorching ray. That would be 18d6dmg with no save, but requiring 3 touch attacks. The scorching ray damage is all up front, no waiting.

So this spell looks okay to me.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Does Empower affect EVERY ray? I thought it was just the first one? Maybe I am being paranoid.

[Derklord]

19*3.5 is 66.5, that actually pretty tame for a turn's worth of action.

[Mark Hoover 330]

DL, that's 66.5 damage, but over 4 rounds, 3 of which the wizard doesn't have to do anything to get the extra damage. Currently this wizard doesn't have any metamagic feats and hasn't purchased any rods, so he's just flingin' spells as is. Using a fireball in a 3rd level slot, he does 10d6, then on round 2 he needs to use another fireball for another 10d6. This spell makes it so round 1 he does 11d6, round 2 he uses one standard action, he deals 15d6. Round 3 he uses one standard action, fires x3 ranged touch attacks and potentially deals another 14d6.

By the end of round three that's 1 4th, 1 3rd and 1 2nd level spell gone but the wizard has just pumped out potentially 40d6 damage, or 140 avg damage. Are you sure I shouldn't be worried?

[Derklord]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

DL, that's 66.5 damage, but over 4 rounds, 3 of which the wizard doesn't have to do anything to get the extra damage.

That makes it worse, unless fighting a spellcaster.

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

the wizard has just pumped out potentially 40d6 damage, or 140 avg damage

A well build martial does that every turn. Now, this Wizard isn't build for damage, but I'm not talking about min/maxed martial with every single recource spend on damage, either.

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Using a fireball in a 3rd level slot, he does 10d6, then on round 2 he needs to use another fireball for another 10d6. This spell makes it so round 1 he does 11d6, round 2 he uses one standard action, he deals 15d6. Round 3 he uses one standard action, fires x3 ranged touch attacks and potentially deals another 14d6.

A single target spell being better against a single target then an AoE spell is perfectly within expectation. That's how it should be. That's how it needs to be! The damage comparison looks much different when the Fireball hits two targets...

That said, "overpowered" is a relative term per definition. A thing cannot be overpowered in a vacuum, only compared to something else. And if everyone else in the party only deals 20 damage per turn, then yes, the spell is overpowered, even though it would be weak in many other parties.

So no, I'm not sure you shouldn't be worried, because I don't know the power level of your campaign (nor the difficulty).

[Azothath]

no - it's not overpowered.
Remember the progression at CL15+: R1{cast})15d6(max)[fire] Rflx DC dmg/2, R2 7d6[fire] Rflx DC dmg/2, R3 3d6[fire] Rflx DC dmg/2, R4 1d6[fire] Rflx DC dmg/2. If you were to Intensify spell for CL20, I'd be 20, 10, 5, 2, 1. Really only the first two rounds are any threat and Energy Rst [fire] will abate most of it.

Better spells at Fourth: Blk Tentacles, Dim Door, Confusion, Dragon's Breath, Emer F Sphere(way better), Bestow Curse, Enervation, Shadow Projection.

I gave Pyrotechnic Eruption to my "Noble Elder Fire Elemental" as part of the new series for noble elemental creatures (Air, Earth, Fire, Water) who are agents of Natural Order. I had to add Consume Element and Drag Element to regular elementals as well.

[Diego Rossi]

The damage isn't overpowered. What makes it strange is how the damage is dealt and how it follows the target regardless of what he does.
It is clearly a spell meant to hamper spellcasters (it even damages people that attempt to touch the target, and that will include people trying to strike him with non-reach melee weapons).

As it is a fire spell with a duration, in theory, it should ignite flammable items on the target and around the target but it doesn't mention that.

Quote:

Catching on Fire

Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 444
Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and noninstantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don't normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash. Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character's clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out—that is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he's no longer on fire.

A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.

Those whose clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.

No idea if the writer of the spell forgot that non-istantaneous magic fires start fires or if he didn't mean to have the spell start them, but it is one of those holes in the rules that the GM will have to plug one way or the other.

[Chell Raighn]

As Diego pointed out, it harms anyone that tries to touch the target too. So this spell is potentially hazardous to the casters allies as well wince any of them attacking in melee without reach weapons takes damage from it too each time they hit them in combat. An enemy that might be downed in one round may inadvertently be spared for the duration of the spell as melee party members actively avoid striking them not wanting to get burned too, especially if they are low enough in health that a failed save could kill them.

[Java Man]

Do we have a book definition for "attempting to touch" that states using a melee weapon (reach or not) qualifies?

[Azothath]

having your square(s) on fire the whole turn does provide some defensive measures, especially if you are immune/protected from fire. That would apply to any touches, hand held weapon attacks, natural attacks, ammo entering the square(s), and likely spellcasting material components but not reach weapons, creatures firing ammo, or ranged touch attacks.
Again at this level of play only the first two rounds are generally effective.
It's a clear win for Fire Mephits.
One way to quash the spell is to fill your square(s) with water or go underwater or underground, Blink may prove helpful.

[Mark Hoover 330]

As I understand it and how I'm going to rule it is that if something targets a victim with a melee Touch attack, Unarmed Strike or Natural Attack, they are damaged by PE; Adjacent melee won't be affected. Maybe that's lenient but that's the way I'm going.

DL, my game is likely on "easy" mode in comparison to many folks' stories on these forums. The PCs are well built for their respective forms of conflict resolution and due to their stats being rolled initially all of the PCs have superhuman stats. The PCs are currently APL 11; used to be 12 but now permanently down one PC. The monsters/foes I throw out there are strictly by the book, NPCs following Heroic stat arrays, with most monsters not having feats changed or being reskinned.

The scout rogue can usually get in one SA/round with either a +2 rapier or a +1 Comp Longbow (Str +2). That's 6d6 Precision damage added to a single hit. The vanilla paladin put a lot into his mount which has Vital Strike, a 26 Str, 30 AC and a Gore (2d6+12). With its build and items the mount is the bulk of the paladin's damage in a round, unless the dungeon area slims to Medium or Small. Still, their combined damage averages to about 40 damage. I guess, looking at it through that lens, this spell isn't too crazy. Thanks for calming my nerves on this one!