Do chase rules in 2E work for races?

[steelhead]

I’m planning on setting up an epic race in my home campaign using the chase rules. The Gamemastery Guide updates the 1st edition rules so they are less about individuals moving through the chase – and possibly getting stuck at various points – to more cinematic group experiences. Have you used the chase rules in your game and how did it go? Did you use the GG rules as written? If so, did they work for your purposes? If not, did you just alter them or go your own way? Please give details.

[Ascalaphus]

I've seen a fair amount of chases using the 2E rules in Pathfinder Society.

Overall they work well, but PFS takes a slightly different spin on it and I recommend that too;

- Generally allows for more than just 2 skills per obstacle, since PFS parties are ad-hoc, you can't really count on someone having a very specific skill. By allowing ~3 skills, it's a bit less likely to be a surprising problem.

- It's not too restricted to physical/athletic skills. You can use mental skills if thinking/talking your way through quickly is plausible, or saving throws or perception to tough it out/see a way through. All of these things work on the same DC scale in second edition, so it's easy enough to do a mix.

- The GMG very obliquely mentions that the DCs should be low-ish. It makes a somewhat cryptic remark about using an Easy (-2) or Very Easy (-5) DC. And then it's talking about Simple DCs, not level-based DCs. So it's all a bit vague.

But what it comes down to for me in practice: low DCs give a really fun play experience. If the DC for chase obstacles is -2 or even -5 below the normal level based DC, people are going to get a lot of successes, and lots of crits. This gives an illusion that the party is going really fast.

Meanwhile, you can set the number of successes needed a little higher to compensate.

So, if you put two ways of designing chases next to each other:

A) Normal DC and normal number of successes needed
B) Lower DC and higher number of successes needed

They should be equally difficult. But the second one feels like a faster kind of scene and is more enjoyable.

[breithauptclan]

They are more like guidelines.

I don't think the victory point system or the various point systems derived from it are intended or capable of handling any actual scene or encounter without some tweaking. The GM at the very least has to choose: whether victory is achieved by gaining points or not losing them, how many points are needed, which skills are applicable, how many points are gained or lost from roll outcomes, what the DCs are, and how many rounds of rolls are available.

Sure - the chase rules could be adapted to a race just as easily as it could be adapted to anything else.

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One that I did for a level 1 non-combat adventure:

Removing a magical item from a trapped location and then escaping.

Mechanics - chase system, players start with 0 points, but gain 4 points from the first obstacles before the trap is sprung. Various obstacles need to be overcome. Some obstacles have to be passed with multiple points, others can be passed with one point. Ones with multiple points needed generally match the number of players playing (Basically each player has to succeed - or someone else can succeed on their behalf. Though as is normal for these victory point systems, after each player takes their turn, all of the other players have to attempt something before that player can do something again).

1) find the item: Religion or Society - 2 points.
2) remove the item: Thievery or Athletics - 2 points.

Trap springs once the item is removed. Sand pours from the ceiling and blocks the main exit, followed quickly by water filling up the room.

At this point the party will lose 3 points after every 4 checks made by any player as the water begins filling up the room.

If they drop to 0 points, the water will be around their ankles and they will take a -2 penalty to physical checks such as Athletics or Acrobatics. If they drop to -4 points they are completely submerged and have to hold their breath and other underwater environment things.

3) find escape route: Perception or appropriate Lore skill - 1 point.
4) climb to escape route: Athletics or Fortitude - partysize points.
5) cross ledge to escape route: Athletics, Acrobatics, or Reflex - partysize points.
6) run down tunnel: Athletics or Fortitude - partysize points.
7) avoid dead end branching path: Religion, Society, or Lore - 1 point.
8) jump, swing, or climb across a gap in the floor: Athletics, Acrobatics - partysize points.
9) remove grate blocking the exit: Thievery, Athletics - 1 point.

[breithauptclan]

Ascalaphus wrote:

By allowing ~3 skills, it's a bit less likely to be a surprising problem.

- It's not too restricted to physical/athletic skills. You can use mental skills if thinking/talking your way through quickly is plausible, or saving throws or perception to tough it out/see a way through. All of these things work on the same DC scale in second edition, so it's easy enough to do a mix.

Highlighting this again because I think it is that important.

All of the players are going to want to play. Make sure that their characters have something that they are able to do effectively for at least the majority of the checks.

[Jared Walter 356]

My players have loved the chase scenes, and in general the victory point system.
I have run dozens of these, and learned a few things about doing them right and wrong.
1) Have a variety of skills (at least two, but preferably 3).
2) remember players can act in any order in the chase scenes.
3) set the DCs low. Your players should need to roll a 6 or 7 to succeed to keep up in a chase as written. ie, The odds of a critical success must be as better than the odds of a failure or the party will most likely fail.

I recommend the chase cards, though I still build my chases by selecting relevant cards, and not using the same skills too much. In particular avoid back to back obstacles with the same skill options.

Most importantly, your party will need a way to fail forward. A more difficult battle, or extra tasks to complete on failure.

I have used the system for a chases (mostly), but also research quests, parties, legwork, build-up to combat.