Is it possible to use Craft: Alchemy to turn iron or lead into gold? I know you can do it with a Philosopher's Stone, but is it possible to transform a smaller volume with just a Craft: Alchemy check? I'm asking by RAW, for an upcoming political intrigue campaign I'm taking part in, since I thought it would be good to be able to create gold to grease palms.
A Philosophers Stone is an artifact that allows someone with 10 ranks of craft alchemy to turn a set amount of a base metal into a higher grade metal. A 20th level alchemist can take the discovery Philosophers Stone to learn how to create them. Other than the above methods you cannot use craft alchemy to create gold. Most instant wealth schemes are going to be shut down by any sane GM. So, the answer to your question is no.
Using the crafting rules to create wealth is one thing because it is time consuming and usually does not create a lot of wealth. Most of the time about the best you can do is to double your investment and that usually takes a significant amount of time.
Sure, you can, the problem is that it is costly, complicated, and takes a lot of time, so you gain only the result of your skill check/ every week. ;-)
Put another way: you can always use a craft, or profession, or perform check to make money, but only at the rate explained under skills in the CRB.
It’s funny because turning lead to gold was almost the entire point of original alchemy. But at the same time, even in the legends, no one ever seemed to succeed. Since Pathfinder often makes attempts to keep you from generating wealth, I assume the lack of options for transmuting lead to gold was intentional.
Bao Hadir wrote: Is it possible to use Craft: Alchemy to turn iron or lead into gold? I know you can do it with a Philosopher's Stone, but is it possible to transform a smaller volume with just a Craft: Alchemy check? I'm asking by RAW, for an upcoming political intrigue campaign I'm taking part in, since I thought it would be good to be able to create gold to grease palms. so there are 2 parts to this;
The model or faith of Alchemy on wikipedia. The reactions an alchemist performed he took part in and was part of. By perfecting the reactions he could perfect himself. Thus at his apotheosis he could transform base metals(lead) into noble metals(gold).
The Game - Craft(Alchemy) with DCs, masterwork tools, and such. Magic spells and items come into play. There's no DC set in RAW to turn lead into gold thus it falls to your GM.
I suspect there are several processes that likely cost more than the gold produced. It is probable that scrounging valuable monster parts or finding rare alchemical reagents will lessen the gold cost for the crafter and make it cost effective, so join an adventuring party.
There are rules to earn income from a Craft skill & downtime.
Mastering the Wild see Foraging & Salvaging, then Trophies & Treasures.
Gold search on AoN
There are the gold look alikes; [!]Fool's Gold(AA), [!]Fool's Gold(VC), and previous Fool's Gold(3.0), then Polymorph any Object:T8
From a money making perspective, peddling influence and information are probably easier and more profitable in a game of intrigue (think Enchanter, Illusionist, Diviner). An Alchemist crafting love potions, heal potions, poisons and curatives will likely live a comfortable life. The game is more geared towards milking creature venom, finding rare herbs, and picking up stuff while adventuring than transmuting lead into gold.
Melkiador wrote: It’s funny because turning lead to gold was almost the entire point of original alchemy. But at the same time, even in the legends, no one ever seemed to succeed. Since Pathfinder often makes attempts to keep you from generating wealth, I assume the lack of options for transmuting lead to gold was intentional. What's even more ironic is that when people were discovering how atoms work and nuclear fission, it was originally lauded as being a pseudoscience because it's possible to turn lead into gold with nuclear fission, and it maybe didn't help that some of the early professors made that a joke in their lectures when they were trying to spread the knowledge.
AwesomenessDog wrote: Melkiador wrote: It’s funny because turning lead to gold was almost the entire point of original alchemy. But at the same time, even in the legends, no one ever seemed to succeed. Since Pathfinder often makes attempts to keep you from generating wealth, I assume the lack of options for transmuting lead to gold was intentional. What's even more ironic is that when people were discovering how atoms work and nuclear fission, it was originally lauded as being a pseudoscience because it's possible to turn lead into gold with nuclear fission, and it maybe didn't help that some of the early professors made that a joke in their lectures when they were trying to spread the knowledge. An Alchemist's retort has no fissions.
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there is also alchemist Cupcake's secret way to turn led into gold. be warned some might frown upon this method.
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There is a way in Pathfinder for an alchemist to turn lead into gold, but it requires the character to be a 20th level alchemist and choose the philosophers stone grand discovery. Turning lead into gold was supposed to be the ultimate achievement of an alchemist. Making it a capstone of the class is entirely appropriate. This is not something a low or even mid-level character should be able to do.
As I pointed out in my first post you can use craft alchemy or any other craft or profession to make money, but it will not going to instantly make you wealthy. Doing so is not going to be turning lead into gold; it will be creating alchemical items, or maybe making potions.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: There is a way in Pathfinder for an alchemist to turn lead into gold, but it requires the character to be a 20th level alchemist and choose the philosopher's stone grand discovery. Turning lead into gold was supposed to be the ultimate achievement of an alchemist. Making it a capstone of the class is entirely appropriate. This is not something a low or even mid-level character should be able to do.
As I pointed out in my first post you can use craft alchemy or any other craft or profession to make money, but it will not going to instantly make you wealthy. Doing so is not going to be turning lead into gold; it will be creating alchemical items, or maybe making potions.
The 20th level grand discovery does not just permit the transmutation of lead into gold. It permits the creation of the philosopher's stone minor artifact:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/artifacts/minor-artifacts/philosopher- s-stone
Which can create 50,000 gp in transmuted gold (minus the cost of 1,000 pounds of lead) or just a level 9 cleric true resurrection without the 25k material component.
They get one of these every month at no cost. Of course at level 20 gold is trivial, so this GRAND DISCOVERY CAPSTONE is actually not that big of a deal.
Now that all that is out of the way, there is no reason an alchemist might not be struggling to transmute minute amounts of gold all through their careers, and it is very in keeping with the fantasy that alchemists be given royal patronage to transmute base metals to gold.
Coming around to RAW: The Craft skill lists "Practice a Trade" as a use of the skill where you earn half your skill check in gold a week. There's no reason a GM could interpret that to be actually "making" half your check in gold a week. Pump your skill and make a little gold in a cool alchemic way. I certainly think there are more efficient ways to earn money, but that's neither here nor there.
as an example, lets use the crafting rules and assume GM approval and an arbitrary Craft Alchemy DC.
1. Assign price(value), so 3gp=30SP which is a small amount (0.96oz or 3/50 lb).
2. Find DC. This is the tricky part. Let's choose Craft Alchemy DC 20 {masterwork component}.
3. Pay 1/3 price to start. Cost = 1gp. {why I chose 3gp as a starting point}
4. Craft check for 1 week. At 5th level lets assume an Int of 18 and 5 skill ranks which yields 1d20+12 or taking "10"-> 22. Taking "10" is an important choice in this example ar it avoids no progress & failure.
Next, check result*DC -> 22*20=440SP! So you or Your GM has 2 choices; 1) RAW prorate the results and time to 3gp of gold taking (4hrs->) 1 day (or 1 whole day as Daily Progress) resulting in 3gp worth of gold made, or 2) Average to 44.4 gold pieces worth of gold after 1 week.
5. Done crafting.
As normal since it is a PC item, sell at half (as you are not producing gold pieces). Now subtract off the initial gp costs AFTER selling(halving productivity).
Thus at +12 DC20 you earn 0.5gp/day with 1gp up front or 7.33gp/week taking "10" with 15gp up front. Starting from 1gp it'll take two weeks to build up the starting reserve or initial resources for weekly progress (assuming your PC is living for free).
At higher DCs no progress and failure become a real probability while the DC as a scalar increases progress.
PF Unchained has an alternate process which has less up front costs, less costs for failure, and about 2 to 3 times the productivity but no "taking 10".
Alchemy Crafting kit $25 your Basic Lab allowing skill checks.
Alchemist's Lab $200 for +2 crcm to Craft Alchemy checks.
Masterwork tools $50 add +2 crcm to specific craft checks.
Crafter's Forture:T1 spell adds +5 luck to craft checks.
as a 5th level caster in this example, as an NPC casting one Third level spell nets 150gp (3*5*10gp).
Allowing someone to copy a spell nets half the scribe cost, or First 5gp, Third 45gp.
oops - that's 44gp/wk not 44.4. -> 7.33gp profit per week (which is correct), basically (DC*Chk)/6 SP.
Skills: (Total Skill bonus is listed first at "+{N}" for small investment{starting mat'l} of 1gp)
at +10 vs DC20 avg profit is 7.18gp/wk.
at +10 vs DC25 avg profit is 5.43gp/wk.
at +15 vs DC30 avg profit is 11.31gp/wk.
I'll add that higher price points (above 23.2gp at +10 & DC20) drive the average into negative territory rather quickly. So "take 10" is your friend when the skill vs DC is close.
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