Monkeying around...

[VoodistMonk]

I was messing around, looking at races with alternative and/or interesting modes of movement available to them, and stumbled upon this feat for the Vanara monkey-people. Which made me immediately think about this other feat, as I understand trees and branches seem to go together.

All that goes almost too well with the Pirate UnRogue's Swinging Reposition. And the Scout archetype just happens to stack, so you can get Scout's Charge, too.

Online by level 4:
1. Finesse Training
1. Sea Legs
1. Sneak Attack 1D6
1(class): Sea Legs
1(level): Tree Hanger

2. Evasion
2. Swinging Reposition

3. Unflinching +1
3. Finesse Training
3. Sneak Attack 2D6
3(level): Branch Pounce

4. Debilitating Injury
4. Rogue Talent
...
4. Scout's Charge

[DeathlessOne]

Ha! Toss Monkey Style feat chain in there too, so when you inevitably fail to hit and hit the ground, you won't take any penalties for doing so, and eventually leading up to Monkey Shine @ level 11 to enter their square and be an overall nuisance.

[VoodistMonk]

DeathlessOne wrote:

Ha! Toss Monkey Style feat chain in there too, so when you inevitably fail to hit and hit the ground, you won't take any penalties for doing so, and eventually leading up to Monkey Shine @ level 11 to enter their square and be an overall nuisance.

It is hard for me to get behind Improved Unarmed Strike without some sort of scaling increase to the base damage your unarmed strikes will be doing. A monkey is like the perfect chassis for an unarmed strike build, though... nothing makes more sense doing all that kung fu BS than something that can literally punch you with its feet.

As much as I do like how well Monkey Style fits, both thematically and mechanically, I was thinking about abusing Rhino Charge to break action economy and reliably trigger Sneak Attack via Scout's Charge. As well as possibly setting up additional damages from positioning via Branch Pounce, because you can move into the branches or rigging above your target then ready your charge.

Even if you have to use the 4HD stat bump to increase Strength to 13 for Power Attack, you can have it online by level 7 (which is the earliest any 3/4 BAB class can have Rhino Charge):
Vanara
+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha

Pirate-Scout UnRogue
1. Finesse Training
1. Sea Legs
1. Sneak Attack 1D6
1(class): Sea Legs
1(level): Tree Hanger

2. Evasion
2. Swinging Reposition

3. Finesse Training
3. Sneak Attack 2D6
3. Unflinching +1
3(level): Branch Pounce

4. Debilitating Injury
4. Rogue Talent
... Combat Trick
4. Scout's Charge
4(class): Power Attack

5. Rogue's Edge
...
5. Sneak Attack 3D6
5(level): Improved Bullrush

6. Rogue Talent
...
6. Unflinching +2

7. Sneak Attack 4D6
7(level): Rhino Charge

[Mark Hoover 330]

I know you don't get down w/an unarmed strike build on this PC, but there's also Charging Stag Style. The chain is pretty feat intensive unfortunately; you need Improved Unarmed, Dodge and Mobility to pick up the first one but then no other prereqs to complete the chain.

Charging Stag Style lets you Charge through Difficult Terrain and also through enemies, letting you make 1 turn during the charge up to 90 degrees. Using this feat you make 1 attack at the end of your Charge, so no pouncing with this first feat.

Stag Horns, the second in the chain, lets you make a free Grapple check at the end of the charge along w/your 1 attack, and the maneuver doesn't provoke. Finally, on Stag Submission which is the last in the chain, if you successfully pin your foe you can either also deal unarmed damage (which would also deliver SA damage since Pinned denies Dex bonus) or you could knock your foe Prone.

With a Rogue Talent you can grab a Ninja Talent, and there's a Ninja Talent that gives you a free Style feat, if you wanted to enter a style chain. Rogues are a bit feat starved, so I between that and no scaling unarmed damage I get not wanting to go this route.

I'm wondering what the advantage on this build would be for Rhino Charge? It lets you ready a Charge, but if your PC is planning to be climbing, swinging from rigging, brachiating or whatever, and you can already Charge and reposition yourself using these abilities, why ready such an action?

Lastly, while Tree Hanger is specifically Vanara it is mainly defensive and lets you attack w/2 hands while climbing. Unless you'll be using a bow or doing a 2h Str build, seems kind of niche.

A Grippili (I know, I'm obsessed w/the frog folk but hear me out) can begin the game with their normal Climb speed of 20, plus alternate race traits that let them jump using Acrobatics as if they'd moved 10' even when standing still and glider wings that let them move 5' horizontally for every 10' vertically downward they drop.

So, going Grippili and using the same build, minus Tree Hanger at L1, this rogue by L4 could climb, charge through trees and such, drop out using Branch Pounce, and when falling down to deliver Branch Pounce damage could add another 5' horizontally for every 10' down they drop, so they might reposition themselves 10' away instead of 5', possibly setting up another Charge the next round?

All in all this sounds like a super fun build!

[VoodistMonk]

I feel like I already have a million Grippli builds. Lol. I have Grippli Vexing Mousers, and Grippli Coastal Pirates, and Vampire Grippli Rangers, and Grippli Eldritch Archers, and Grippli Skalds, and Grippli Barbarians, and Grippli Slayers, and Grippli Warpriests, and Grippli Vigilantes, and a glorious Grippli Toxicant-Vivisectionist Alchemist gestalt with Venom Siphoner Witch... yes, I too am somewhat obsessed with the frog folk.

[VoodistMonk]

As to the relevance of Tree Hanger and Rhino Charge...

Tree Hanger is cool because you kind of become part of the background/scenery... trees and masts/rigging are normally just something to hide behind or are in the way for most characters. For a swift action, you can sort of remove yourself from the board. Any of the many abilities that prefer you have a free hand available can still be used. All this from a location that is near-unplayable to most everyone else. Jump up in the rafters, throw caltrops on the floor, then laugh mockingly like a monkey.

Rhino Charge is strickly to break up action economy for a charge... instead of a full round action, you can now move, then essentially charge as a standard action [a little bit later]. Just opens up options that otherwise would not exist, and I like options. Plus, charging triggers Sneak Attack, so this opens up more options for Sneak Attack... Rogues love Sneak Attack options as much as I love breaking action economy.

In theory, this particular Vanara Pirate-Scout UnRogue could move their full speed available, jump into the branches, and ready a charge that triggers in the same round of combat. Sure, they could just charge, and still change direction with Swinging Reposition, accomplishing basically the same thing. It's just nice to have options, me-thinks.

[Mark Hoover 330]

If you're planning to Charge a lot from tree branches, rigging, or what not... Death From Above. Normally you gain +2 to attack on a Charge and +1 from Higher Ground; this feat says in place of those 2 individual bonuses, you get +5 to attack when charging from either flying or being on higher ground from an opponent. Could be pretty handy for a 3/4 BAB PC.

[VoodistMonk]

I like that, and would probably slot it in at level 4 via Combat Trick for low-level minions... otherwise, it would have to wait until level 9 if I still wanted Rhino Charge on the build.

At level 4, even a 15pt buy Vanara could be rocking 10,20,12,10,12,8 stats... that's at least a +13 to attack with Death From Above... which is CR7 territory for the High Attack catagory. A simple Rapier would be doing 1D6+5+2D6 on a charge, plus any extra D6's we can add from falling/Branch Pounce... let's say we can reliably drop 10 feet, so just 1D6... that's 4D6+5, or about 21, which is about CR5 damages.

All this from a 15pt buy, level 4 UnRogue monkey... which is CR3, at best.

[DeathlessOne]

The CR system doesn't account for heavy optimization. You should probably treat it like the CR5 threat it is.