Monstrous Companion + Wicked Leader... would you let it slide?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


We all are well aware of just how badly Monstrous Companion sucks. No use going into all that.

But if a player was to pick the Wicked Leader trait and the Monstrous Companion feat, would you allow their Effective Cohort Level to be one below the player's Effective Druid Level... assuming their Monstrous Companion was, indeed, evil? Is this a way to finally fix Monstrous Companion, at least a little bit [for evil characters].

I know I would allow it, but of course I would. I would consider that bought and paid for regardless of it might not being completely legal on a technical level.


No, at best I would increase the effective level they were allowed to have by 1, because that's what the Wicked Leader feat really does.

It doesn't set it to 1 below the character level, it increases it from 2 below CL to 1 below CL.

So as an example, at effective Druid level of 14, I would let Monstrous Companion + Wicked Leader have an effective companion level of 10.


But to be honest, Monstrous companion rules are confusing because they talk about effective character level and I don't know where that is established outside of specific published lists that I see referenced but can't find the sources for.


Yeah, Monstrous Companion is completely unusable without an actual formula for converting CR to Effective Cohort Level. You can kind of extrapolate that their ECL is roughly equal to their CR+4, although magical beasts with flight usually see a +5 or +6 increase over their CR. The provided list has a freaking supposedly legal option with an Effective Cohort Level of 14... the table tops out at 12. If you have an Effective Druid Level of 20, then the highest Effective Cohort Level available to you is 12. Go figure. There are more magical beasts listed with no Effective Cohort Level provided for them, and no formula to convert their CR to ECL, and nothing in their bestiary entries gives any clue as to where on that stupid arbitrary table they might belong.

I just wanted a goshdarned Ratling as my Cohort... is that really too much to ask for? It's a CR2 magical beast, so probably an Effective Cohort Level of about 6... which would be fine, as I want to give him 6+ levels of Counterfeit Mage for Signature Wand and Wand Adept... to add to the Ratling's innate Scroll Use, now he can play with wands, too. And since Ratlings already have both the Dodge/Mobility feats, I figured Wand Dancer might be fun.

Yes I know at level 20, having a level 6 Ratling Rogue that can use scrolls and wands is completely useless... and Improved Familiar would be much, much better. However, a Ratling is forbidden from having another Ratling as a Familiar. Lol. Ratlings are not forbidden from having another Ratling as a Cohort, though... because Ratlings aren't on the Monstrous Companion list, and there is no formula to concert other magical beasts (even ones on their own stupid lists). Their lists are stupid because they offer options that are impossible to reach according to their own tables.

Monstrous Mount sucks equally as much as Monstrous Companion, but at least now my Goblins can ride Worgs. I can tell you that whilst fun to use, the mental image of Goblins riding Reindeer is ridiculous... and that session gets absolutely nowhere.


To be honest, I'd be more like (if I allowed leadership in the first place) to allow you take leadership and have a ratling as effectively a 4th (maybe 5th level) companion gaining class level afterwards.

Leadership is generally an overpowered feat. But also spending multiple feats to accomplish the same thing is a bit distasteful to me. And barring specific exceptions, generally monstrous companion is worse than just sticking with the animal companion you're normally granted.

Like maybe a blink dog would be a decent option, because their effective level is low enough that they'll still get some other bonuses on top but a regular animal companion is probably going to end up with better stats.

They would have been better off just giving you specific stats for (like they do for an animal companion) that is different from the base creature with some special abilities that progresses like an animal companion.

Like a feat to get a roc that actually gets larger than large size, or some beasts that have interesting special abilities. There were better ways to balance things and they didn't.

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