A bloodrager can end his bloodrage as a free action. When the bloodrage ends, he’s fatigued for a number of rounds equal to twice the number of rounds spent in the bloodrage. A bloodrager cannot enter a new bloodrage while fatigued or exhausted, but can otherwise enter bloodrage multiple times during a single encounter or combat.
In addition, upon entering a bloodrage, the bloodrager can apply the effects a bloodrager spell he knows of 2nd level or lower to himself. The spell must have a range of touch or personal. If the spell’s duration is greater than 1 round, it instead lasts for the duration of the bloodrage. This use consumes a bloodrager spell slot, as if he had cast the spell; he must have the spell slot available to take advantage of this effect.
As someone unfamiliar with this class, I’m curious about whether the first paragraph directly informs the second one or not. Is the first paragraph simply referencing exceptions to the rule, in which a bloodrager might end their bloodrage without being fatigued? Or is it effectively saying that at 11th level my bloodrager can “enter” bloodrage as a free action every round, effectively gaining a poor man’s spell combat—albeit limited to 1st-2nd level spells with a range of touch or personal?
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Neither. They don’t directly interact with each other.
The first paragraph is saying “if you bloodrage for one round, you are fatigued for two rounds immediately after it ends. Two for four, three for six, etc.” You can’t enter bloodrage while you are fatigued or exhausted, whether for this reason or any other.
The second paragraph (Greater Bloodrage) is “you can cast a spell on yourself as a free action when you enter bloodrage. Unless the normal duration is only one round, this spell lasts as long as you bloodrage, but ends as soon as you end bloodrage.”
You can’t “enter bloodrage every round” because you are fatigued when your bloodrage ends.
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To clarify, my confusion primarily lay with the closing part of the first paragraph—whether you could “enter” bloodrage multiple times without actually ending the first instance.
So, if I understand you correctly, all it’s saying is that if you end bloodrage for [insert reason here] but combat continues beyond the number of rounds you were fatigued, you can re-enter bloodrage as a free action (once you’re no longer fatigued).
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To clarify, my confusion primarily lay with the closing part of the first paragraph—whether you could “enter” bloodrage multiple times without actually ending the first instance.
So, if I understand you correctly, all it’s saying is that if you end bloodrage for [insert reason here] but combat continues beyond the number of rounds you were fatigued, you can re-enter bloodrage as a free action (once you’re no longer fatigued).
think of it like a room. you cant enter it if you're already in it. you gotta leave it to enter it again
Believe me, I get it. After so many years and so much material, though, I’m no longer confident in applying (what seems to me to be) the most obvious reading of rules text.
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So, if I understand you correctly, all it’s saying is that if you end bloodrage for [insert reason here] but combat continues beyond the number of rounds you were fatigued, you can re-enter bloodrage as a free action (once you’re no longer fatigued).
Yes. Your whole question doesn't actually have anything to do with Greater Bloodrage, personal range spells, or even Bloodrager - that line was simply copy-pasted from the Barbarian's Rage description. Paizo added that line to Rage because in 3.5, the Barbarian's Rage said "A barbarian can fly into a rage only once per encounter.", and they wanted to make clear to people switching over (= the majority of the player base in the early days of Pathfinder) that this was no longer the case in PF.
So yeah, the "but can otherwise enter bloodrage multiple times during a single encounter or combat." sentence is purely explanatory text that does absolutely nothing rules-wise.
There is a funny thing with Urban Bloodragers, who can pick up Bladed Dash as a Spell (partial access to Bard spells) and cast it via greater bloodrage, allowing for semi pounce.
This doesn't actually work. Greater Bloodrage says "the bloodrager can apply the effects a bloodrager spell he knows of 2nd level or lower to himself", and Bladed Dash says "When you cast this spell, you immediately move up to 30 feet" - applying the effects of a spell is not casting it. The ability even explicitly says "This use consumes a bloodrager spell slot, as if he had cast the spell", leaving no doubt that no casting happened.
Counter example one:
Spell like abilities.
"A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description." CRB pg. 221 It can only have a "castign time" if it casts, so activating an SLA does count as casting. And the "A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description." ibid. sentence takes care of the "the spell" part.
Counter example 2:
Magical Traps
"Magic device traps initiate spell effects when activated, just as wands, rods, rings, and other magic items do." CRB pg. 460 "Some individual items, notably those that just store spells, don’t get full-blown descriptions. Reference the spell’s description for details, modified by the form of the item (potion, scroll, wand, and so on). Assume that the spell is cast at the minimum level required to cast it." ibid., emphasis mine If a trap works like a wand, and a wand counts as casting the spell, then so does the trap.
casting spells as a free action would not provoke, much as casting spells as a swift action does not
Says which rule? Swift action spells have a special exception from the norm.
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There is a funny thing with Urban Bloodragers, who can pick up Bladed Dash as a Spell (partial access to Bard spells) and cast it via greater bloodrage, allowing for semi pounce.This doesn't actually work. Greater Bloodrage says "the bloodrager can apply the effects a bloodrager spell he knows of 2nd level or lower to himself", and Bladed Dash says "When you cast this spell, you immediately move up to 30 feet" - applying the effects of a spell is not casting it. The ability even explicitly says "This use consumes a bloodrager spell slot, as if he had cast the spell", leaving no doubt that no casting happened.
Trying to follow here. Are you saying that because Greater Bloodrage is a (Su) ability, it all comes down to how the writer of a particular spell chose to use explanatory text?
That if bladed dash had been written as
Both Quantium and Jalmeray claim that this spell was born in their arcane universities. Regardless of the spell’s origin, it quickly spread throughout the Inner Sea and beyond as spellcasting sword-fighters learned of its existence.
You immediately move up to 30 feet in a straight line any direction, momentarily leaving a multi-hued cascade of images behind you. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You may make a single melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against any one creature you are adjacent to at any point along this 30 feet. You gain a circumstance bonus on your attack roll equal to your Intelligence or Charisma modifier, whichever is higher. You must end the bonus movement granted by this spell in an unoccupied square. If no such space is available along the trajectory, the spell fails. Despite the name, the spell works with any melee weapon.
it would be fine for the urban bloodrager but because the first sentence of the second paragraph begins with "When you cast this spell, you immediately move. . ." it doesn't?
As mightypion pointed out, this would also mean a bloodrager couldn't use mirror image with greater bloodrage (since mirror image says "When mirror image is cast, 1d4 images plus one image per three caster levels (maximum eight images total) are created.")
There's a lot of other spells and classes this reading could affect; anyone who has a supernatural ability that duplicates a spell.
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I agree with Belafon. The use of "when this spell is cast" or variants doesn't change what is the effect of the spell, in Bladed dash instance "you immediately move up to 30 feet in a straight line any direction, etc.".
There can be exceptions, but they require way more stringent text that "When you cast this spell, X and Y happens".
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From Greater Bloodrage “In addition, upon entering a bloodrage, the bloodrager can APPLY THE EFFECTS of a bloodrager spell he knows of 2nd level or lower to himself.” From Bladed Dash “When you cast this spell, you immediately move up to 30 feet in a straight line any direction, momentarily leaving a multi-hued cascade of images behind you.” Derklord are you suggesting that immediately moving 30’ in a straight line (or any other effects of the spell) is not an effect of the Bladed Dash spell? I know Paizo hasn’t got an exact definition of an effect but I think most GMs would read the text of the spell as an effect here.
“Casting” the spell is irrelevant in this case as Greater Bloodrage clearly states that you apply the EFFECTS of the spell regardless of whether or not the spell is actually cast. The fact the spell isn’t actually cast only matters for effects or abilities that trigger when a spell is “cast” such as a Magus’ Spellstrike ability. So unless Derklord is suggesting that Bladed Dash doesn’t produce any useable “effects” that can be applied then it should still work as written with Greater Bloodrage.
There is a funny thing with Urban Bloodragers, who can pick up Bladed Dash as a Spell (partial access to Bard spells) and cast it via greater bloodrage, allowing for semi pounce.This doesn't actually work. Greater Bloodrage says "the bloodrager can apply the effects a bloodrager spell he knows of 2nd level or lower to himself", and Bladed Dash says "When you cast this spell, you immediately move up to 30 feet" - applying the effects of a spell is not casting it. The ability even explicitly says "This use consumes a bloodrager spell slot, as if he had cast the spell", leaving no doubt that no casting happened.
Have you agree with the others. You are applying an overly strict reading to "When you cast this spell..."
The effects of a spell are everything that occurs as a result of a spell being cast, a spell being activated, a spell being triggered, etc. You would have to show that "move 30' and get an attack" are not effects of the bladed dash spell to argue that these don't work with greater bloodrage.
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The fact the spell isn’t actually cast only matters for effects or abilities that trigger when a spell is “cast” such as a Magus’ Spellstrike ability.
So when an ability says "when you cast", that's important, but when the spell says "when you cast", that should just be ignored? That's kinda arbitrary, isn't it?
Also, not every spell works with Greater Bloodrage, Windy Escape being an example.
That said, and while I didn't really hear any convincing counter-arguments here, thinking about my own reply to Mightypion made me realize that my reasoning breaks my own, personal standard of what is rule-text and what is explanatory/descriptive/filler text: That if you remove it, and in 99% of all situation nothing changes, it's not rule text. And well, that's exactly the case for Bladed Dash.
Therefore, I rectify my previous position.
The fact the spell isn’t actually cast only matters for effects or abilities that trigger when a spell is “cast” such as a Magus’ Spellstrike ability.So when an ability says "when you cast", that's important, but when the spell says "when you cast", that should just be ignored? That's kinda arbitrary, isn't it?
Also, not every spell works with Greater Bloodrage, Windy Escape being an example.
That said, and while I didn't really hear any convincing counter-arguments here, thinking about my own reply to Mightypion made me realize that my reasoning breaks my own, personal standard of what is rule-text and what is explanatory/descriptive/filler text: That if you remove it, and in 99% of all situation nothing changes, it's not rule text. And well, that's exactly the case for Bladed Dash.
Therefore, I rectify my previous position.
Windy Escape doesn't work because Windy Escape is cast in response to someone making an attack against you. Greater Bloodrage is not a provoking action, so no one will be attacking you when you enter it. eg, it really has nothing to do with Greater Bloodrage, rather it is entirely based on how Windy Escape works. By the same rational you cannot Windy Escape as part of spell combat.
(It could be argued that windy escape can be cast regardless of whether being attacked or not, but given doing so provides no benefit, no on will actually do so, so its a moot point - under this argument, then yes, you could, pointlessly, windy escape as part of GB).