Player entry problems

[Oliver1]

I think the reason Pathfinder is losing to D&D 5e is because of player entry to play the game. The first issue is name recognition, if you want to play an RPG D&D IS the name people know (we can’t change the name because Pathfinder does have brand recognition but not close to Dungeons and Dragons). The sheer amount of books that are out there for Pathfinder is an issue, if an interested person walks into a store and sees the amount of books the for Pathfinder is a hurtle to start the game (I think that starting a second edition will help with that.) It is interesting that in order to get into D&D 5e requires a person to buy at least two books but actually three books (Players Handbook, DMs guide and a Monster Manual) to run a game and Pathfinder only requires one (the Core Rulebook) and maybe 2 with a beastiary to have a large variety of monsters. That needs be made clear to any that looks at the book as quickly as possible (like on the spine and cover). It is something that differentiate the two games in a big way. The next barrier to entry for Pathfinder is how your competition advertise their game. I think having a free adventure that anyone can play for free without needing anything to play for the first time is likely the reason that WotC announced that D&D has never been more popular. Pathfinder even has an amazing system to build a player base through the Pathfinder Society. I think if Paizo would release a free adventure with characters for new players to be able to join with nothing but the ability to get to the store is smart. If the store advertise this with the Venture Captains and Lieutenants running them on a specified day of the week your player base would grow and it is a great way to test for new Venture crew for the Venture Captains.

[Rogersi]

I totally agree with you.

[Loreguard]

They have put out free adventures every year for FreeRPG day for years. If what you are saying is having the free adventure in printed form and stocked in most store, i imagine that would be an expensive proposition in the long run.

I know I have been willing to pay for the physical printed copy ordered afterwards to have a physical copy to hold, even though I’ve already gotten the electronic version for free.

Maybe increased awareness of the availability of the free downloadable adventure with maybe a QR code on adversement signs or maybe free playing card sized handouts, maybe a discount code offering a few dollars off beginner box and/or core rulebook?

Might just be a heightened awareness and simplification of people being able to see what is already available.

[Leon Aquilla]

Rogersi wrote:

I totally agree with you.

Original poster makes their first post ever on the forums

2 hours later, someone else also happens to make their first post agreeing with it, not contributing anything else other than "What he said".

What are the chances?!

Anyways - the Pf2e beginner box is a great way to get started in Pathfinder. Try it out.

[David knott 242]

In any case, Paizo having lower sales than Wizards is the normal state of affairs. The one time that Paizo had higher sales was as a result of incompetence on the part of Wizards. Paizo's efforts alone would not have been sufficient to outcompete them.

[TOZ]

Oliver1 wrote:

I think the reason Pathfinder is losing to D&D 5e

Bold to assume that Pathfinder is competing with D&D and not instead benefitting from the rising tide bringing in more players to the hobby.

[Dancing Wind]

Oliver1 wrote:

I think the reason Pathfinder is losing to D&D 5e is

Quote:

The first issue is name recognition

{snip}
Pathfinder does have brand recognition but not close to Dungeons and Dragons)

Let's see....

Dungeons and Dragons was first published in 1974
35 years later, the first Pathfinder ruleset was published in 2009.

I'd say that 35 years of advertising and building a player base without competition might lead to better name recognition.
Or perhaps those generations of D&D players teaching their kids how to play D&D before Pathfinder existed might be the reason.

Quote:

The sheer amount of books that are out there for Pathfinder is an issue

So you think that in spite of 35 extra years worth of D&D material, that it's Pathfinder that has the "too much material" problem? And too much material is causing a name recognition problem for Pathfinder?

Quote:

The next barrier to entry for Pathfinder is how your competition advertise their game.

{snip}
I think having a free adventure that anyone can play for free without needing anything to play for the first time is likely the reason that WotC announced that D&D has never been more popular.

As noted above, there are many years worth of free Pathfinder adventures available for newcomers to play.

Quote:

I think if Paizo would release a free adventure with characters for new players to be able to join with nothing but the ability to get to the store is smart.

Welcome to Pathfinder Society!

Alex Speidel, Organized Play Coordinator wrote:

2) Pregens serve two functions in our eyes: they help fill out a table with a GM or player-controlled fourth PC, and they help new players sit down at a table without a character and jump right in. To the former point, we already have a full stable of pregens such that you could run an entire table and still not use all the pregens available.

There are 16 different classes represented in the free pregen downloads

You can download them for free by clicking that link.

Four of them have three different levels pre-statted (1, 3, 5)
Twelve of them have two levels statted (1,5)

Quote:

If the store advertise this

Ask your local store to start advertising their free Pathfinder games. Store advertising is a decision made by the store owner.

You are absolutely right that free characters and free games would help build the player base. And that by building the player base, the Pathfinder Society would build its base of GMs and venture lieutenants and venture captains.

You can help by offering to GM those once-a-week free games at your local store. Arrange it with the owner, and let your local venture captain know so they can help you and your players get the credits you're earning for being active PFS members.

You've got great ideas that are easy for you to implement! Let us know how it goes.

[Berhagen]

I think the games serve a different population and need. D&D has some nice 3rd party settings, and works for people who don’t care much for structured and developed game systems.

Pathfinder has a bit of a kitchen sink setting (although newer materials are a lot better …) but is a more structured and thought out system.

I use both - one as a player and GM for my long time game group (people who like complexity and rules) and the other for my kids.

And then there are some settings that I like using 5e (isles of Sina UNA, and looking forward to empires of the Silk Road).