Cutting to the chase, I want to make a kobold Swarm Fighter for my next campaign, and the DM might allow me to treat my teamwork feats as active when I'm fighting, or I might have to give it to the group like a Cavalier can do.
Anyways, is the Kobold Style feat tree any good?
It doesn't seem to let you grapple someone as an attack of opportunity when someone knocks them down.
How would I make them work if I wanted to garrote someone while he's on the floor?
Any help is appreciated, thank you.
Name Violation wrote: Tetori monk maybe?
Going with a Swarm Fighter, I'm asking if anyone's used the feat tree or know if it's usable solo.
Kobold Style is thematically fun, but the problem is that the feats aren't really useful until you knock an enemy prone - something that the feat tree doesn't help you do in the first place. Once they are prone, for any further combat maneuvers you attempt against them they lose their dex bonus and you have an additional +4 bonus. So at that point it's very easy to succeed at combat maneuvers. However by 9th level a swarm fighter can move into an enemy's square and cause them to lose their dex bonus vs. the fighter that way.
Kobold Flood is pretty useless by yourself. Not only does it have very specific size limitations (you can't even use it against another small creature) but you're probably better off just grappling your target unless you have an entire party with Kobold Style and Kobold Groundling. With a swarm of Kobolds using the style it can absolutely get nasty.
The best use I know of for Kobold Style by yourself is a reach rogue. You really just want Kobold Groundling, though. Trip an enemy as it moves in; then you can sneak attack it on your round or if it provokes.
Not sure why you mentioned your teamwork feats, did you have some specific feats in mind to combo with Kobold Style?
Belafon wrote: Kobold Style is thematically fun, but the problem is that the feats aren't really useful until you knock an enemy prone - something that the feat tree doesn't help you do in the first place. Once they are prone, for any further combat maneuvers you attempt against them they lose their dex bonus and you have an additional +4 bonus. So at that point it's very easy to succeed at combat maneuvers. However by 9th level a swarm fighter can move into an enemy's square and cause them to lose their dex bonus vs. the fighter that way.
Kobold Flood is pretty useless by yourself. Not only does it have very specific size limitations (you can't even use it against another small creature) but you're probably better off just grappling your target unless you have an entire party with Kobold Style and Kobold Groundling. With a swarm of Kobolds using the style it can absolutely get nasty.
The best use I know of for Kobold Style by yourself is a reach rogue. You really just want Kobold Groundling, though. Trip an enemy as it moves in; then you can sneak attack it on your round or if it provokes.
Not sure why you mentioned your teamwork feats, did you have some specific feats in mind to combo with Kobold Style?
The tone of the feat tree honestly reminds me of God of War III when you get dogpiled by a bunch of goons.
The biggest problem I have with Flood is that you can't grapple them as an attack of opportunity, so unless someone else tripped them, you have to wait for your next turn before giving them the People's Elbow.
The Swarm Fighter trades out half of its bonus feats for Teamwork feats, and aside from Outflank, Tandem Trip and Precise Strike, I'm not really sure what would work out for me.
Though if I don't take Kobold Style, I'll likely just go with two kukris and put up with Two-Weapon Grace's problems.
Re-reading the Kobold Style feats reminded me of the silly idea I had years ago for an encounter:
A sprite (advanced, and with levels) casts a quickened SLA stumble gap and then uses Kobold Flood to prevent the PC from getting up. "I can't get up! There's a diminutive creature on my head!"
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The first feat paires well with the archetype at 9th level and higher, giving a straight up +4 to grapple checks if you've used the Share Space ability first. The other two feats are decidedly less useful, though, as you don't need Kobold Groundling to trigger the style feat thanks to the archetype, and you don't have anything that makes the opponent prone to make use of either that or Kobold Flood.
Also to consider is that Kobold Style requires Combat Expertise for some reason, meaning it's only +2 to CMB per feat, which is the same as other feats (which grant additional bonuses). So ultimately, the whole style is rather weak.
Spermy The Cat wrote: It doesn't seem to let you grapple someone as an attack of opportunity when someone knocks them down. Yeah, it only adds another affect to a grapple check you can already make.
Spermy The Cat wrote: The Swarm Fighter trades out half of its bonus feats for Teamwork feats, and aside from Outflank, Tandem Trip and Precise Strike, I'm not really sure what would work out for me. If your GM lets you either share teamwork feats, or gives you something like Solo Tactics, Coordinated Maneuvers works if you want a grapple build.
I have to ask, though: Is there anything you actually want from Swarm Fighter? The archetype is rather terrible, and a kobold martial character is already hosed enough. Don't select things just because they have "kobold" written on them somewhere!
Derklord wrote: The first feat paires well with the archetype at 9th level and higher, giving a straight up +4 to grapple checks if you've used the Share Space ability first. The other two feats are decidedly less useful, though, as you don't need Kobold Groundling to trigger the style feat thanks to the archetype, and you don't have anything that makes the opponent prone to make use of either that or Kobold Flood.
Also to consider is that Kobold Style requires Combat Expertise for some reason, meaning it's only +2 to CMB per feat, which is the same as other feats (which grant additional bonuses). So ultimately, the whole style is rather weak.
Spermy The Cat wrote: It doesn't seem to let you grapple someone as an attack of opportunity when someone knocks them down. Yeah, it only adds another affect to a grapple check you can already make.
Spermy The Cat wrote: The Swarm Fighter trades out half of its bonus feats for Teamwork feats, and aside from Outflank, Tandem Trip and Precise Strike, I'm not really sure what would work out for me. If your GM lets you either share teamwork feats, or gives you something like Solo Tactics, Coordinated Maneuvers works if you want a grapple build.
I have to ask, though: Is there anything you actually want from Swarm Fighter? The archetype is rather terrible, and a kobold martial character is already hosed enough. Don't select things just because they have "kobold" written on them somewhere!
Oversimplified, I've wanted to play a kobold for half a decade, and I'm due to play something deliberately obnoxious.
Complete honesty, I am a sucker for flavour, and the Swarm Fighter's shtick of violating your personal space in a tempestuous storm of Kobold just hits me in the right place.
For example, I played a Gulch Funner for Skull and Shackles and ended up with a Combat Patrol build, playing Punch-Out with a musket; the sheer amount of high-risk high-reward was some of the most fun I've had playing Pathfinder.
So right now I'm thinking a Swarm Fighter with VMC Rogue to capitalise on the FCB for flanking damage, a Bushwacker Funslinger as a secondary, and try to figure out Sorcerer as a tertiary.
On the side, the DM offered me a deal over my concerns: every certain milestone, I'll find another Kobold and we'll work together, so I'll end up wirh like four or five jackasses, and in exchange I either have to split my share of the money between them, or taking Auto-Bonus Progression and hoping it'll break even with the money cuts.
Though knowing him, he'll likely regret it once he sees what two of them can do together, much less four or five.
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