So I can summon a crocodile now, a MS3 spell
I am wondering about the attack.
It reads;
Melee bite +5 [+7] (1d8+4 [ 1d8+6] plus grab )
and tail slap +0 [+2] (1d12+2) [1d12+3]
Special Attack death roll (1d8+6 [ 1d8+9] plus trip )
It further reads under "Death Roll"
When grappling a foe of its size or smaller, a crocodile
can perform a death roll upon making a successful grapple check.
So does all this happen during his full round attack, all st once?
Bite (say it's grab is successful, tailslap, does the death roll, and trips?
Or is it bite/grab next round I'd death roll?
Kind of interested in an answer, myself.
It's whenever you successfully maintain, as a variation of a constrict.
It would do the death rolls before the tail slap technically, and can potentially benefit from trip AC reduction against the target.
So I can summon a crocodile now, a MS3 spell
I am wondering about the attack.
It reads;
Melee bite +5 [+7] (1d8+4 [ 1d8+6] plus grab )
and tail slap +0 [+2] (1d12+2) [1d12+3]
Special Attack death roll (1d8+6 [ 1d8+9] plus trip )It further reads under "Death Roll"
When grappling a foe of its size or smaller, a crocodile
can perform a death roll upon making a successful grapple check.So does all this happen during his full round attack, all st once?
Bite (say it's grab is successful, tailslap, does the death roll, and trips?
Or is it bite/grab next round I'd death roll?
But is that all in one standard action?
It's basically the same as constrict, which has spawned many a question. The thing is that nothing deifnes the term "grapple check". The grapple rules only use the term once, and not to describe the initial combat maneuver check. Some rule options (e.g. Grasping Hand however use the term in a way that applies to the initial check.
It's really up to the GM. I'm pretty sure the intend is to only trigger on the (successful) check to maintain a grapple, not on the initial attempt, but no hard rules on that.
I've always used constrict and similar abilities to apply to the initial grapple check and any subsequent ones. I've found that most enemies with the ability don't last until the second round.
But like Derklord said, it's pretty much up to the DM on a case by case basis.
I gotcha, but where I'm kind of up is the sentence
That reads; a crocodile can perform a death roll upon
making a successful grapple check.
To me, that reads it rolls right into the death roll after a
Successful grapple.
Yes, that is the case Kirb. Either a successful standard attack to bite or full attack with a successful bite will initiate the grab, and if the grab succeeds, you roll bonus death roll damage and an additional trip check.
It's whenever you successfully maintain, as a variation of a constrict.
It would do the death rolls before the tail slap technically, and can potentially benefit from trip AC reduction against the target.
From what I know about crocodilians (thank you Marlin Perkins, Steve Irwin, and Sir David Attenborough) the tail slap seems to be mostly a defensive act, but I could just be bloody wrong. I do think that a grapple/death roll would probably take priority once it got hold of its prey, though.
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Death Roll (Ex) When grappling a foe of its size or smaller, a crocodile can perform a death roll upon making a successful grapple check.
When you make the initial grappling check you aren't grappling the foe. So, as I read it, you the crocodile can't make a death roll with the initial check, only when maintaining the grapple.
Compare with constrict:
Constrict (Ex)
A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent when it makes a successful grapple check
It requires making the check, without the need to already grapple the foe, ao it works with the initial grapple attempt.
From what I know about crocodilians (thank you Marlin Perkins, Steve Irwin, and Sir David Attenborough) the tail slap seems to be mostly a defensive act, but I could just be bloody wrong. I do think that a grapple/death roll would probably take priority once it got hold of its prey, though.It's whenever you successfully maintain, as a variation of a constrict.
It would do the death rolls before the tail slap technically, and can potentially benefit from trip AC reduction against the target.
Aside from the functional properties the tail slap, the death roll *does* get resolved all as part of the bite attack. You don't move onto the tail slap, which could simply be more body writhing (it's entire body is shaped like a tail anyways), until you finish all parts of the bite attack.
@Diego, "When grappling a creature of your size of smaller" isn't a limiter meaning you have to already be grappling, it is a limiter on the target size. Take out that limiter and you have the exact same "upon making a successful grapple check" wording.