Knowledge checks and Aid Another

[Mark Hoover 330]

Just trying to gauge the forums, see what you folks do. For a long time I had players pick one PC with an appropriate Knowledge skill, then anyone else with that knowledge could attempt to Aid Another. They'd get one big number and I'd tell them a lot about one monster.

Recently I switched to making each PC roll and, if some folks got above the base for the lore check they might know one or more things about the monster. Sometimes they know the same stuff, sometimes different info.

I made the switch b/c honestly after about level 4 the one guy that always plays the arcane caster with some ability or feat that makes their knowledge checks ridiculous is usually going to know everything anyway, but when they were doing Aid Another checks some of the numbers got so high I might as well just hand the players the monster's stat block.

Now it works more like this: I've got a modified CR 6 ghoul with NPC class levels to make it a setting-specific ghoul variant. These are pretty uncommon, so the base DC for a knowledge check is 21. 3 of the 4 PCs have 1 rank in Knowledge (Religion) and they have a paid NPC Cleric with them as well.

Going around the table the paladin gets a 22, the NPC Cleric has a 19, the u-monk gets a 28 and the wizard scores a 31. So nearly everyone knows it's an undead ghoul variant called a Spirit-Ridden Ghoul and, like all ghouls, they'll paralyze you if they hit you with their natural attacks. The monk and wizard however both know that the spirit that inhabits and "rides" the animated corpse gives extra skill and power in combat; they also know that the ghoul can create standard ghoul spawn when they slay mortals. Finally the wizard, having the highest roll, knows that the rite that binds the spirit to the corpse is fiendish in nature; the Spirit-Ridden Ghoul can empower it's attacks with the Smite Good ability and has a powerful resistance to several energy types.

Am I doing it wrong? Does anyone else do it one way or another? What are your thoughts on Knowledge checks and Aid Another bonuses?

[VoodistMonk]

I let the players do what they want. I'm usually pretty happy if anyone attempts a Knowledge check, at all, before initiating combat by attacking it, whatever it might happen to be [they don't even know what "it" actually is, yet, because they didn't attempt any Knowledge checks]. Lol. On the rare occasion people just start making random Knowledge checks to idnetify things, I let them. If they coordinate and use Aid Another, that's fine, too... assuming each person giving aid is trained in the required skill.

Either way, I think your approach is perfectly fine.

[Kasoh]

What I'd like: The player with a thematic interest or field of study with the creature rolls and I provide information as appropriate to the player who disseminates it to the rest of the party.

What happens: People roll regardless of training until someone rolls high enough to get information and through the transitive property of Handwavium, what the GM says is translated perfectly through the character.

On a failed, but close check, I'll give creature name and type with no other information. Only when its a really big fail will I stonewall them with no information.

How much I care: Not really. Since I play on VTTs I assume that people either have the stat block open or just know what creature it is, because half of the group recognizes a monster's bestiary picture on sight after playing this game for 10 years. Its nice when the players give me the fig leaf of rolling knowledge checks, but I never assume that a hidden ability of the creature is going to increase the challenge of an encounter. Ignorance is not a calculation that goes into CR.

[Jhaeman]

I don't allow Aid Another on normal Knowledge checks in combat--there's not an opportunity to collaborate and share information when you're ducking claws and jumping over spear thrusts. I do allow Aid Another with something like library research rolls.

Regardless, you shouldn't feel like you have to give them everything--it's a piece of information and then another piece of information for every 5 that the DC is exceeded.

[Diego Rossi]

Quote:

Aid Another

You can help someone achieve success on a skill check by making the same kind of skill check in a cooperative effort. If you roll a 10 or higher on your check, the character you’re helping gets a +2 bonus on his or her check. (You can’t take 10 on a skill check to aid another.) In many cases, a character’s help won’t be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once.
In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results, such as trying to open a lock using Disable Device, you can’t aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn’t achieve alone. The GM might impose further restrictions to aiding another on a case-by-case basis as well.

The knowledge skills require you to be trained to attempt them if the DC is 11+, so only people trained in the skill can help unless the monster is something common.

I take "your character couldn’t achieve alone" in an even more restrictive sense (not sure if that is the RAI), as "you can help only up to the maximum result you could get alone", i.e., if you have Knowledge (planes) 1, you can't aid making a check with a DC of 22+.

As Jhaeman said, generally in combat you don't have the time to share notes and discuss the creature, so I generally don't allow Aid another for knowledge checks in combat.
The sharing of information is limited too, there is only so much that you can say in 6 seconds.
"It is a demon." or/and "Don't use fire." fine.
"It is a rare Gurlack demo, you need good-aligned cold iron weapons to do full damage, but it is particularly vulnerable to lightning and cold, and can deal negative levels with its bite." is a bit long while you are dodging its attacks, casting a spell and moving 30', all in your turn of the round.