Favorite low level builds...


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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You may not be able to Arcane Strike with a ray, but you can with a tarot card!

Construct Sabotuer Rogue gets Arcane Strike for "free", and you can use the Rogue Talent called Card Sharp for Deadly Dealer. Sure, a Card Caster Magus or Cartomancer Witch get Deadly Dealer, but sometimes it's fun to go down the road less traveled. There is something just silly and fun about a Rogue flicking cards that makes me smile. Too bad Construct Sabotuer doesn't stack with Swindler. Drats, I know. That would have been perfect, but it's not.

Speaking of Rogues, here's a good one:
Underground Chemist UnRogue 4/
Vivisectionist Alchemist 1

The way Vivisectionist is worded makes it the ultimate Rogue... we grab four levels of Underground Chemist for the Bomber Rogue Talent, which gives us Bombs with damage equal to our Sneak Attack dice... Sneak Attack dice that Vivisectionist will continue for us... the funny thing is, Vivisectionist traded away their Bombs for that Sneak Attack. Lol. Anyways, we also get Chemical Weapons and Precise Splash Weapons from Underground Chemist, which adds our Intelligence modifier to damage dealt with splash weapons and can do Sneak Attack with them. We also get all the cool UnRogue stuffs like Dex-to-DMG and Debilitating Injury, and going 4 levels in a 3/4 BAB class makes it so you don't miss a beat.


^Unfortunately, they didn't carry over Card Sharp when they put together the Unchained Rogue Talents list. Now, pre-Unchained Rogue was hardly overpowered, and pre-Unchained Rogue Talents were hardly overpowered, so my inclination would be to let Unchained Rogues choose any pre-Unchained Rogue Talent that doesn't have the same name as an Unchained Rogue Talent, but that isn't Rules As Written.

Note that Vivisectionist Alchemist retains the Alchemist edition of Throw Anything, which gives them Intelligence to Damage with splash weapons even without Underground Chemist Rogue. This makes Vivisectionist Alchemist a compelling Sneak Attack dip for something like an Arcane Trickster, marred only by the lack of bonus Weapon Finesse (that Unchained Rogue gives you).


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For a different highly effective low level build, keep in mind that if you are a Magus that DIDN'T choose an archetype that traces out your Magus Arcana at 3rd level, you can get the Wand Wielder Magus Arcana and a Wand of True Strike to make yourself very effective with Combat Maneuvers. If you can somehow use a Reach weapon, this gets even better by usually allowing you to avoid the resulting Attack of Opportunity, even if you haven't yet gotten the corresponding Improved Combat Maneuver feat. The Reach weapon for which this works most readily is the Whip.

The following Half-Elf Magus Whip-Using Deft Maneuver Master build wasn't meant to be a build for superfast effectiveness, but I think it qualifies:

Magus (no archetype or Hexcrafter), Half-Elf with Ancestral Arms alternate racial trait replacing Adaptability to get Whip proficiency and Fey Thoughts (Escape Artist, Perception) replacing Multitalented.

15 Point Buy version: Str 10 / Dex (14 + 2 =) 16 / Con 14 / Int 15 / Wis 10 / Cha 08 (I hate dumping, but have to soft-dump here); all ability score increases go to Intelligence.

20 Point Buy version: Str 10 / Dex 16 / Con 14 / Int (15 + 2 =) 17 / Wis 10 / Cha 08 (I hate dumping, but have to soft-dump here); all ability score increases go to Intelligence.

Traits: Campaign Trait, Pragmatic Activator (get Wand of Mage Armor to use pre-Combat, and other Wands for out-of-combat utility).

Favored Class Bonus for no archetype: Add +1/4 point to the Magus’ Arcane Pool.

Favored Class Bonus for Hexcrafter: Skill Points for 1st 2 levels (use for the low-investment but potentially life-saving skills Climb and Swim), then add +1/6 of a new Magus Arcana thereafter (unfortunately can't choose this before level 3, because level 3 is when you get your first Magus Arcana).

Skill Ranks per Level: Total 4 for 15 Point Buy version or 5 for 20 Point Buy version: 2 for Magus, 2 or 3 for Intelligence 15 (15 Point Buy version) or 17 (20 Point Buy version) (in both cases, eventually get more); Hexcrafter also gets 1 extra Skill Rank from Favored Class Bonus at each of levels 1 and 2.

Skills to Max: Acrobatics (delay acquisition until Intelligence increase at level 4), Escape Artist (critical due to low Strength), Knowledge (Arcana) (20 Point Buy version -- for 15 Point Buy version add this later when Intelligence increase permits), Perception, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device.

Other Skills (low investment but need to be non-0): Climb, Fly (eventually needs to be more than 1), Knowledge (all not listed above, and some eventually need to be more than 1), Sense Motive, Swim.

01: Level 1 character feat = Weapon Finesse; Half-Elf Ancestral Arms = bonus feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip); however, also carry a Rapier to use when a Whip is not effective, and also carry a Kukri as a backup weapon in case you get Grappled.
02: -
03: Level 3 character feat = Whip Mastery; level 3 Magus Arcana = Wand Wielder (get Wand of True Strike to use for Combat Maneuvers; resist the temptation to get a Wand of Ill Omen to debuff enemies that don't know about how to remove Ill Omen, which won't work very well, since you can't Spellstrike with a Wand, which doesn't matter in the case of True Strike).

The rest of the build:

04: Level 4 ability score increase goes to Intelligence; if using HexCrafter archetype, Spell Recall replaced by Level 4 Hex = Slumber Hex.
05: Level 5 character feat = Phalanx Formation; Level 5 Magus bonus feat = Combat Reflexes.
06: Level 6 Magus Arcana for no archetype = Prescient Attack (for fighting something like a Monk or a Pixie, or worse yet a Shadow or especially a Greater Shadow, although unfortunately Prescient Attack needs a successful hit in the first place to get it started, so you might have to Wand Wield a True Strike first to get it started); level 6 Magus Arcana for Hexcrafter = Evil Eye Hex.
07: Level 7 character feat = Emergency Attunement (use this if you have to change your Tactical Adaptation choice and later if you have to change your Paragon Surge choice); Tactical Adaptation come online and can be used to get a temporary Combat Feat, including Dirty Fighting until you get this as a regular feat at level 9, and then including the Improved Combat Maneuver feats unlocked by Dirty Fighting.
08: Level 8 ability score increase goes to Intelligence; if using HexCrafter archetype, Favored Class Bonus Magus Arcana = Misfortune Hex.
09: Level 9 character feat = Dirty Fighting; Level 9 Magus Arcana = Accurate Strike (use against very heavily armored enemies).
10: -; Paragon Surge comes online to add to Tactical Adaptation (see above, and optionally add Greater Combat Maneuver feats when using both spells), but can also be used for some other type of feat, including Extra Magus Arcana (Maneuver Mastery), which could be better than the corresponding Greater Combat Maneuver feat if you don't think you can get good use of teammates getting Attacks of Opportunity on whatever enemy you used Improved Combat Maneuver on (and would have otherwise used the corresponding Greater Combat Maneuver on); if using Hexcrafter archetype, you can alternatively use Paragon Surge for Accursed Hex or Extra Hex.
11: Level 11 character feat = Weapon Focus (Whip); Level 11 Magus bonus feat = Improved Whip Mastery; although not explicitly stated in the rules, assume that since Hexcrafter replaced Spell Recall with a Hex, it automatically degrades Improved Spell Recall (not explicitly altered by the archetype text) to Spell Recall.
12: Level 12 ability score increase goes to Intelligence; Level 12 Magus Arcana for no archetype = Devoted Blade; Level 12 Magus Arcana for Hexcrafter archetype = Ice Tomb Hex or Retribution Hex.
13: Level 13 character feat for no archetype = Greater Whip Mastery; level 13 character feat for Hexcrafter archetype = Split Hex (double your Hexing action economy).
14: - for no archetype; if using Hexcrafter archetype, Level 14 Favored Class Bonus Magus Arcana = Retribution Hex or Ice Tomb Hex (whichever one you did not get at level 12).
15: Level 15 character feat = Slashing Grace (only works in rounds in which you aren't using Spell Combat, like in successive rounds of delivering a multi-touch spell like Chill Touch or Frostbite); level 15 Magus Arcana for no archetype = Bane Blade or Devoted Blade (depending upon campaign); level 15 Magus Arcana for Hexcrafter = Regenerative Sinew Hex (you can fix up party members including yourself that get massively damaged or ability damaged).
16: Level 16 ability score increase goes to Intelligence.
17: Level 17 character feat = Rime Spell; level 17 Magus bonus feat = Heighten Spell (use on Frostbite to change it from a multi-touch debuff into a multi-round multi-touch debuff, and use on Chill Touch to boost the Save DC back into relevance -- Persistent Spell would be better for that but wouldn't work for Frostbite or other boosted low-level Cold spells).
18: Level 18 Magus Arcana = Reflection (9th level spells can be extremely nasty -- you want to be able to reflect them) (for Hexcrafter it is tempting to select Life Giver, but unlike Regenerative Sinew, which will be needed fairly often, this should be needed rarely enough that using Paragon Surge, possibly with Emergency Attunement, to get this should cover the need).
19: Level 19 character feat for no archetype = Quicken Spell; level 19 character feat for Hexcrafter = Split Major Hex (double your Major Hexing action economy).
20: Level 20 ability score increase goes to Intelligence.


UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Unfortunately, they didn't carry over Card Sharp when they put together the Unchained Rogue Talents list. Now, pre-Unchained Rogue was hardly overpowered, and pre-Unchained Rogue Talents were hardly overpowered, so my inclination would be to let Unchained Rogues choose any pre-Unchained Rogue Talent that doesn't have the same name as an Unchained Rogue Talent, but that isn't Rules As Written.

Note that Vivisectionist Alchemist retains the Alchemist edition of Throw Anything, which gives them Intelligence to Damage with splash weapons even without Underground Chemist Rogue. This makes Vivisectionist Alchemist a compelling Sneak Attack dip for something like an Arcane Trickster, marred only by the lack of bonus Weapon Finesse (that Unchained Rogue gives you).

I was already thinking cRogue for a Construct Sabotuer with Card Sharp... so I'm not too worried about Card Sharp not technically being available to UnRogues. I allow UnRogues to take the old cRogue Talents, just like you said, but I understand that is not RAW. They're still just rogues, throw a dog a bone. Lol.

And Vivisectionist is a better Rogue than most Rogues, so it's generally an upgrade if you don't have something specific in mind and just want to play a "rogue". The four-level dip into Underground Chemist UnRogue is pick up Dex-to-DMG and Debilitating Injury, as well as the Bomber Rogue Talent... getting all the UnRogue goodies, and Bombs, on a Vivisectionist is all sorts of legit. You have two good saves, Extracts, Mutagen, real Alchemy... still have all the skills and Sneak Attack. It's an upgrade, and you don't miss a beat with the four-level dip.


^A four level dip out of a spellcasting or extract-using class is pretty brutal. This was one of the knocks against Arcane Trickster before VMC and Accomplished Sneak Attacker came out (originally required three level dip, although once Vivisectionist Alchemist came out you could do a two level dip as in the following). That said, if for some weird reason you didn't have access to these, I could see dipping in 1 level each of Unchained Rogue and Vivisectionist Alchemist (and having Magical Knack be one of your traits for full caster level at the cost of not being able to take Pragmatic Activator for Int-to-UMD) to get all the Sneak Attack you need. This would give you Weapon Finesse, Brew Potion, Throw Anything Alchemist Edition, a Mutagen, and a bit of Alchemy, which is a pretty good starting package. Note that you DO need to have access to Pathfinder Unchained Fractional Base Bonuses to keep from being totally hosed on BAB (+2 at 3rd level as opposed to +0 at 3rd level).


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Oracle 5
at 5th take the Experimental Spellcaster feat and grab the Undeath effect word
Enjoy using 2nd level spell slots to cast a close range, no material component version of animate dead.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Oracle 5

at 5th take the Experimental Spellcaster feat and grab the Undeath effect word
Enjoy using 2nd level spell slots to cast a close range, no material component version of animate dead.

Oh, Experimental Spellcaster, how I love you so...

This is a good build. Well done.

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