Can you treat wounds on the unwounded


Rules Discussion


After you successfully treat wounds for one hour, can you treat wounds again even though the person is no longer wounded? Essentially, I had a group of new level 3 players, find safe shelter, successfully treat wounds 3 times for 3 hours in a row.
After the first hour they were no longer "Wounded", just sorely lacking in HP.
After that, I said no more and made them sleep for 8 hours.
(New DM)

Grand Lodge

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Treat wounds is primarily designed to restore hit points. You also remove the wounded condition. You can keep using it with only restriction being time.

Generally, PF2 assumes party's are most full between fights, and denying or limiting out of combat healing too much may make the game more lethal than intended.


Yes you can as the Treat Wounds action restores HP and additionally removes the Wounded condition.

Requirements You are holding healer's tools, or you are wearing them and have a hand free

If you succeed at your check, you can continue treating the target to grant additional healing. If you treat them for a total of 1 hour, double the Hit Points they regain from Treat Wounds.
The result of your Medicine check determines how many Hit Points the target regains.

Notice the requirements do not list having the Wounded condition

Sovereign Court

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Yeah it's something that surprises many new GMs, but healing to full HP in between combats is normal. It takes a long time at level 1 but it gets easier a few levels in, with feats like Continual Recovery and Ward Medic. But even at level 1 there are abilities like a champion's Lay on Hands spell that allow you to just heal up entirely.

PF2 doesn't really rely on the party suffering attrition from encounter after encounter to make combats feel appropriately challenging. Between focus spells, cantrips and good out of combat healing, parties can do many encounters per day. But each combat is also balanced as if it was all on its own. So if you're doing just one encounter per day during overland travel, it won't feel pointless. Same if you play on say, weekday nights and only have time for one or two combats; they're still meaty even if you don't have four or five combats.

Now, sometimes in an adventure there's time pressure. If you wait too long the evil princess will eat the baby dragon, the cultists will sacrifice someone, the bad guys will flee, evidence is destroyed. So you can't always heal up full. That's when you reach for potions and spells to heal up faster. But the amount of that that you can afford is pretty limited. If you're going to use time pressure as a GM, you should probably make the fights themselves a bit easier. Because they're already harder if you start them without full HP.


Thanks for the awesome advice. I was not aware of the mindset that healing to full up between encounters is normal.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

To expand slightly on it being normal, it isn't like it's never appropriate for encounters to run close together, without time for healing, but when you expect that to happen as a GM, you should balance the encounters around that. Basically, a "level 4 Severe encounter" means that it will be a Severe encounter for a fully healthy level 4 party. Back to back Severe encounters would therefore be quite dangerous, but multiple smaller encounters that run together can still be a reasonable alternative to one big one, if it's a better fit for the narrative.

Liberty's Edge

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The sure way to TPK is encounters that are designed to be handled one at a time and that the GM merges together because "it makes sense that the other monsters would come and check what's going on".
In PF1, PCs could survive it. In PF2, they die.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Honestly, that can get pretty squishy, too, depending on how you run it, and "sure way to TPK" is an overstatement.

"Encounter 2 suddenly rushes into encounter 1, with full force and readiness, while Encounter 1 is in full swing" means you have one giant encounter and can easily turn a couples of Moderates into an Extreme. That is a good likelihood of TPK.

"One guy from Encounter 2 comes into Encounter 1 after a couple of rounds, and is followed by the rest if Encounter 2 in varying states of readiness (and having to spend preparatory actions)" dilutes the amount if enemy infective capability that can come to bear at once by a lot, and makes a massive difference in what the difficulty of the encounter actually is.

Combining encounters can be fine, but pacing matters and is more art than science, especially as the number of level-appropriate hits a creature can take shifts over the range of levels, and changes what the pace of reinforcements should be to get the desired effect.

So combining encounters isn't a thing to avoid at all costs. It's just a dangerous tool that you don't want to use recklessly. As a dangerous tool, I'd recommend holding iff on it until you have a good feel for how your group's normal encounters go.


The Raven Black wrote:

The sure way to TPK is encounters that are designed to be handled one at a time and that the GM merges together because "it makes sense that the other monsters would come and check what's going on".

In PF1, PCs could survive it. In PF2, they die.

Not necessarily.

I did different royal rumbles or subsequential fights ( 3 fights in a row without letting the adventurers rest, for example ).

They were epic and some of them even extremely challenging, though the only TPK I could have done was during the second chapter of the first book of EC, in a single encounter.

3 characters downed, 1 faked his death with deception, and the fighter jumped out of the window calling out for help, making the enemy disappear.

And I have to say that even that was epic too ( I rolled nearly godlike and they missed a lot of rolls, but it's something which can and have to happen, sometimes ).

Liberty's Edge

HammerJack wrote:

Honestly, that can get pretty squishy, too, depending on how you run it, and "sure way to TPK" is an overstatement.

"Encounter 2 suddenly rushes into encounter 1, with full force and readiness, while Encounter 1 is in full swing" means you have one giant encounter and can easily turn a couples of Moderates into an Extreme. That is a good likelihood of TPK.

"One guy from Encounter 2 comes into Encounter 1 after a couple of rounds, and is followed by the rest if Encounter 2 in varying states of readiness (and having to spend preparatory actions)" dilutes the amount if enemy infective capability that can come to bear at once by a lot, and makes a massive difference in what the difficulty of the encounter actually is.

Combining encounters can be fine, but pacing matters and is more art than science, especially as the number of level-appropriate hits a creature can take shifts over the range of levels, and changes what the pace of reinforcements should be to get the desired effect.

So combining encounters isn't a thing to avoid at all costs. It's just a dangerous tool that you don't want to use recklessly. As a dangerous tool, I'd recommend holding iff on it until you have a good feel for how your group's normal encounters go.

I was indeed talking about the first case. Which I have also encountered as "on the PCs' second foray, the enemies are on full alert and are all together."

In PF2 seeming common sense kills.


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The Raven Black wrote:
HammerJack wrote:

Honestly, that can get pretty squishy, too, depending on how you run it, and "sure way to TPK" is an overstatement.

"Encounter 2 suddenly rushes into encounter 1, with full force and readiness, while Encounter 1 is in full swing" means you have one giant encounter and can easily turn a couples of Moderates into an Extreme. That is a good likelihood of TPK.

"One guy from Encounter 2 comes into Encounter 1 after a couple of rounds, and is followed by the rest if Encounter 2 in varying states of readiness (and having to spend preparatory actions)" dilutes the amount if enemy infective capability that can come to bear at once by a lot, and makes a massive difference in what the difficulty of the encounter actually is.

Combining encounters can be fine, but pacing matters and is more art than science, especially as the number of level-appropriate hits a creature can take shifts over the range of levels, and changes what the pace of reinforcements should be to get the desired effect.

So combining encounters isn't a thing to avoid at all costs. It's just a dangerous tool that you don't want to use recklessly. As a dangerous tool, I'd recommend holding iff on it until you have a good feel for how your group's normal encounters go.

I was indeed talking about the first case. Which I have also encountered as "on the PCs' second foray, the enemies are on full alert and are all together."

In PF2 seeming common sense kills.

To be fair this is as much the fault of the game conceit that 3-5 heroes will fight their way through an entire compound of enemies. In this game, heroes die if they fight on actually 1-1 odds and for some reason foes rarely seem to recognise their attackers are vastly more dangerous than themselves.

On that note, common sense tactics by the enemies can be preserved if: You balance all the 'likely to join' encounters as a single difficult encounter which triggers only if the other rooms receive warning (or hear the fight), and/or you allow there to be a delay before other rooms join, thus potentially letting the PCs whittle down an easier encounter before it achieves full mass.

On the other hand, you could encourage your players to be very wary about 'raising the alarm' such that they know that once reinforcements start piling in, they should reconsider their options. Unless all the foes have AoO, it's much easier in this edition to beat a hasty retreat once things start getting out of hand, only so long as the players are mentally prepared for the possibility of retreating before it's too late--and assuming reinforcements didn't cut off their escape. Depending on your group, this could lead to some quite engaging tactics attempting to lure a stronghold of alert enemies out into smaller fights until the possibility of taking the compound in a bold assault is reached.

Of course, this would depend strongly on your players--players who aren't interested in such strategic engagements will not be very pleased to find that their bust-down-the-door strategy is so often met with a quickly spiralling encounter which, once they retreat, becomes a tedious slow assault. Just because it's realistic doesn't mean it's fun after all! One of my most engaging fights featured enemies joining from side rooms a round or two after the fight started, then a boss arriving a round or two after that. It was very intense encounter which came the closest to killing a PC I've had (yet) in 2e, but part of it was predicated on the fact that I intentionally designed the individual rooms to be relatively trivial encounters on their own, and relied on the players' ability to semi-clear each phase before the next arrived (which they... did not excel at with their unfocused attacks, but they still managed it)

But this is all besides the point and I realize now looking at the thread title I'm spiralling further and further from the topic.

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