If I have a creature grabbed and for example through crit spec gain the ability to move them 5 feet, do I have to make a check against myself to move them?
If you want to drop the grabbed condition that you are applying to another creature, I would allow you to do that at any point for any reason that you decide.
Also to note, if you do something like Shove and follow after them, then your movement automatically causes Grapple to end and therefore also ends its grabbed condition.
I took a further look at the rules for monsters. Their grab ability seams to work a bit different. When they move grab is NOT lost, only if they move away from the target. To move a creature with them they need special abilities like Slither(Giant Anaconda) for example. And this ability does say nothing about the immobilized condition, so RAW the would need to make a check against there DC as well. Therefore this problem is not only present for player characters.
I guess this is just an oversight in general.
I wouldn't force a creature to roll against itself, it can obviously choose to not resist.
_benno wrote: If I have a creature grabbed and for example through crit spec gain the ability to move them 5 feet, do I have to make a check against myself to move them? Keep in mind that a critical specialization can be applied or not ( player's choice ).
Apart from that:
- Grapple says "Your target is grabbed until the end of your next turn unless you move or your target Escapes".
So, if you decide to move, the target loses the grabbed condition.
I recall existing a couple of feats meant to move along with your target ( like shoving a target and follow up ), but maybe I am just mistaking.
- I suppose ( I am not even sure there's a rule for this one ) that if you try to force a grabbed target into moving, you have to make check against the DC of the effect which is giving the grabbed condition.
So, for example, if an ally has an enemy grabbed and your greatclub attack results into a critical success ( and you decide to apply its critical specialization ) you have to succeed against the ally's DC ( not having a trigger, I think your ally is not allowed to forgo its grasp as a free action ).
As for voluntarily fail a check, seems that the effect/skill/feat/item has to call it out.
Drugs, for example, call specifically out that "A character can voluntarily fail their initial save against a drug" ( leaving apart the addiction related part of the text ).
HumbleGamer wrote: _benno wrote: If I have a creature grabbed and for example through crit spec gain the ability to move them 5 feet, do I have to make a check against myself to move them? Keep in mind that a critical specialization can be applied or not ( player's choice ).
Why wouldn't I apply it. Worst thing I fail the check against myself and the creature doesn't move. Best thing I succeeded and get what I wanted. In both cases the creature is still grabbed afterwards.
HumbleGamer wrote: - Grapple says "Your target is grabbed until the end of your next turn unless you move or your target Escapes". I know that rule. But I never wanted to move myself to begin with.
_benno wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: _benno wrote: If I have a creature grabbed and for example through crit spec gain the ability to move them 5 feet, do I have to make a check against myself to move them? Keep in mind that a critical specialization can be applied or not ( player's choice ).
Why wouldn't I apply it. Worst thing I fail the check against myself and the creature doesn't move. Best thing I succeeded and get what I wanted. In both cases the creature is still grabbed afterwards. Not saying that you always would do so, but that, depends the situation, you might prefer not to.
For example, your ally grappled/restrained the enemy spellcaster, and now you critically hit ( let's take the greatclub example I made before ) with a greatclub which can shove on a critical hit ( forced movement ).
Now, knowing that the spellcaster would go after you, you could prefer giving a flat DC on spellcasting rather than shoving it.
Same goes realizing that your ally would have to stride ( expending 1 action ) to be again within the spellcaster reach.
When possibilities are given, opportunities appear.
HumbleGamer wrote: _benno wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: _benno wrote: If I have a creature grabbed and for example through crit spec gain the ability to move them 5 feet, do I have to make a check against myself to move them? Keep in mind that a critical specialization can be applied or not ( player's choice ).
Why wouldn't I apply it. Worst thing I fail the check against myself and the creature doesn't move. Best thing I succeeded and get what I wanted. In both cases the creature is still grabbed afterwards. Not saying that you always would do so, but that, depends the situation, you might prefer not to.
For example, your ally grappled/restrained the enemy spellcaster, and now you critically hit ( let's take the greatclub example I made before ) with a greatclub which can shove on a critical hit ( forced movement ).
Now, knowing that the spellcaster would go after you, you could prefer giving a flat DC on spellcasting rather than shoving it.
Same goes realizing that your ally would have to stride ( expending 1 action ) to be again within the spellcaster reach.
When possibilities are given, opportunities appear. Yes you are correct that in general there might be cases in which I would not want to apply the crit spec. But the point of my question was that I want to move them, crit spec was just an example for an ability that would give you the opportunity. And in this case there is no reason for me to not attempt it.
HumbleGamer wrote: I recall existing a couple of feats meant to move along with your target ( like shoving a target and follow up ), but maybe I am just mistaking. Shove allows that without any additional feats. There might be others as well.
HumbleGamer wrote: - I suppose ( I am not even sure there's a rule for this one ) that if you try to force a grabbed target into moving, you have to make check against the DC of the effect which is giving the grabbed condition.
So, for example, if an ally has an enemy grabbed and your greatclub attack results into a critical success ( and you decide to apply its critical specialization ) you have to succeed against the ally's DC ( not having a trigger, I think your ally is not allowed to forgo its grasp as a free action ).
The Immobilized condition specifies this - and the Grabbed condition adds the Immobilized condition.
HumbleGamer wrote: As for voluntarily fail a check, seems that the effect/skill/feat/item has to call it out.
Drugs, for example, call specifically out that "A character can voluntarily fail their initial save against a drug" ( leaving apart the addiction related part of the text ).
This is generally true, but in this case I would not make you roll a check against your own effect. The Immobilized condition mentions that the check is needed when an 'external' force is trying to move you. If you are trying to move yourself, there are different rules for that (escape, for example). But if the creature causing the Immobilized condition is trying to move you, I don't classify that as an 'external' force. That is an internal force from the point of view of the Immobilized condition.
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