Double Debilitation

[Adjurer]

Double Debilitation: Your opportunistic attacks are particularly detrimental. When you use Debilitating Strike, you can apply two debilitations simultaneously; removing one removes both.

It doesn't specify that the debilitations need to be different debilitations. Now, with most (such as "causes enfeebled 1") it wouldn't matter because they don't stack anyway. But for some they WOULD stack, so I'm wondering whether the chosen debilitations are allowed to be the same debilitation?

Examples of debilitations that would probably stack
- causes weakness slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning 5 (so you could cause two separate ones of those by choosing the same debilitation twice, but choosing a different option for each)
- add +2d6 sneak attack damage (so you could choose the same debilitation twice and get +4d6 sneak attack damage.

Thoughts?

[breithauptclan]

I don't have a problem with adding two weakness types. That seems like it was saving space writing it as one debilitation with choices rather than writing each of them out separately.

I don't think the +2d6 precision damage would (or should) stack. It does increase the damage that your sneak attack would already be doing. But I don't think that you should be able to choose the precision damage option twice and have it work.

[Adjurer]

breithauptclan wrote:

I don't have a problem with adding two weakness types. That seems like it was saving space writing it as one debilitation with choices rather than writing each of them out separately.

I don't think the +2d6 precision damage would (or should) stack. It does increase the damage that your sneak attack would already be doing. But I don't think that you should be able to choose the precision damage option twice and have it work.

And my question about the second point, would be, why not? Double debilitations is a lvl 15 ability. By level 15, a rogue's normal sneak attack would be 3d6 (+2d6 with the precise debilitation). At level 15, what's wrong with adding an additional 2d6 sneak attack damage?

Not being argumentative. Mostly just curious. Looking ahead as my rogue closes in on lvl 15 (we're almost lvl 13), and so want to plan out feats correctly if I can. If there's a great case for not being able to do it, I'll abandon the line of thought and find a better second debilitation.

Thanks!

[HumbleGamer]

I read it that given a pool of debilitations, you can simply choose a second one.

I don't think it's meant ( especially reading its description) to use a single deblitation twice.

Not saying it would be overpowered to add 2 extra d6 ( didn't do the math), but simply focusing on the feat itself.

[breithauptclan]

Adjurer wrote:

If there's a great case for not being able to do it, I'll abandon the line of thought and find a better second debilitation.

That is the best argument against it. Because 'dead' is the most desirable condition to apply to the enemy. With that in mind, applying +2d6 damage a second time is better than any of the other options. It makes for less interesting play because that double +4d6 is what is almost always chosen. The precision damage option is also the one that sets up your party members the least. You end up being less of a team building player and more of an independent (and maybe competitive) player trying to do as much solo damage as possible. Also not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to better explain my reasoning for my gut-instinct aversion to allowing it as an option.

Other than that, no there really isn't all that much in the printed rules that would explicitly forbid choosing the same debilitation twice for the one attack.

[_benno]

I think it should not be allowed RAW. For me the debilitations are worded as an "either you apply it or you don't" thing. Also ask yourself if you get the task: "Name two prime numbers" would "2 and 2" be a correct answer? So here I think that the two debilitations should be two different ones.
On the other hand it doesn't feel like it's terribly unbalanced so you might wanna speak to your GM about it.

[Deriven Firelion]

I generally only allow once of each type. I would probably allow two different damage types for ruffian rogue. I wouldn't allow stacking of 2d6 as they fall under the same type of stacking bonus.