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Yes, let us talk about protests, police brutality and the American justice system. This is definitely a good idea and also a very productive thing to do in a thread about mind control that was already going nowhere.
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I just want the one thing gone from being a player option. And no pretense that forced servitude is somehow "neutral." It's forced servitude. In no context is it even neutral activity.
The writers seem to want the same thing for the same reason. I support them.
Some direct accounts of life as a slave. Absolutely terrible. Nothing I want to roleplay or deal with as a DM.
Give a listen to know what you want to keep in the game as a what? Neutral activity?
It's good to learn and understand. Glad to see Paizo adjusting Golarion accordingly.
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But darn I think we are getting off topic again. There is a divide that I cannot get my head around where "control someone through long standing threat of violence and a position of ownership" is Evil (it is and should be) but suppression of a beings will through the use of Magic isn't. That's the original crux of the thread I feel. It's also something that has come up in other areas, such as people's feelings about summons and how they must not be true creatures else all Summon spells.shoukd have the evil tag.
This is kinda interesting that things like a Summoner permanently enslaving a creature is not considered evil, and Summon spells in general. Feels like Charm, Geas and other such spells should get the Evil trait just to keep things consistent. Not to mention Familiars, who are clearly sentient beings with no choice but to serve the player.
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The summoner at least is framed as a mutual relationship. A summoner mechanically cannot sacrifice their Eidolon without peril to themselves. A Summon via the spell can be used as a suicide soldier. The only ethical way to view that relationship is if the summons are mere simulacrum.But darn I think we are getting off topic again. There is a divide that I cannot get my head around where "control someone through long standing threat of violence and a position of ownership" is Evil (it is and should be) but suppression of a beings will through the use of Magic isn't. That's the original crux of the thread I feel. It's also something that has come up in other areas, such as people's feelings about summons and how they must not be true creatures else all Summon spells.shoukd have the evil tag.This is kinda interesting that things like a Summoner permanently enslaving a creature, not to mention Summon spells in general. Feels like Charm, Geas and other such spells should get the Evil trait just to keep things consistent. Not to mention Familiars, who are clearly sentient beings with no choice but to serve the player.
It's a lil curious that if their stance on such things was already decided as a whole, that this slipped past. Familiars are probably in the worst situation since they solely exist to serve.
Summon spells are a bit special, but since they still get will saves and can actually be feared, they seem to be sentient enough, especially since they come with their original alignment and can be communicated with. It could have been solved really easily by a single line like "Summon a copy of a creature, while it seems like the real thing, it is essentially a magic construct." but then the wolves we summon might be fear immune.
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Personally, I've always hated Dominate Person and hold person spells, both as a player and GM and usually swap them out for something more interesting and doesn't feel like cheating.
Welcome to my world everyone! Take your shoes off at the door and try not to make a big mess.
