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So what if magic equipment had some universal abilities/traits such as....?
All magic weapons increased in dice damage based on the enhancement bonus instead of a static bonus. Examples would be a +2 short sword would do 3d6 and a a +5 dagger would do 6d4.
All magic armor would grant DR/magic based on the enhancement bonus. I would say x2 or even x3 the enhancement bonus.
All magic shields would add it's enhancement bonus ether to all touch attacks(melee and ranged) or as an additional bonus against all ranged attacks(both regular and touch). Not sure wich I like better.
Of course you would have to make other changes to "balance things out" but I still like the idea.
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So a +5 Greatsword would deal 12d6 damage before adding static bonuses. There are also some class abilities that would change fairly drastically as well. A 5th level Inquisitor with a +1 Longbow can add Bane to their weapon, which is a +2 enhancement bonus as well as a +2d6 damage boost. So that becomes 4d8+2d6 damage before adding any static damage boosters. Occultists can do the same, so my 6th oevel Occultist with a +1 Lucerne Hammer can turn it into a +3 Bane Lucerne Hammer for 5d12+2d6 damage before static modifiers.
You can do it, but it's going to drastically change the balance of certain classes.
Armour giving DR is probably less problematic, but DR/Magic is very easily overcome. I assume this is to add DR vs mooks, and bosses can overcome it?
Shields vs Touch I think would work actually.
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So what if magic equipment had some universal abilities/traits such as....?
All magic weapons increased in dice damage based on the enhancement bonus instead of a static bonus. Examples would be a +2 short sword would do 3d6 and a a +5 dagger would do 6d4.
All magic armor would grant DR/magic based on the enhancement bonus. I would say x2 or even x3 the enhancement bonus.
All magic shields would add it's enhancement bonus ether to all touch attacks(melee and ranged) or as an additional bonus against all ranged attacks(both regular and touch). Not sure wich I like better.
Of course you would have to make other changes to "balance things out" but I still like the idea.
Why though?
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Why though?
This is the real question.
What are you trying to accomplish with these changes?
Maybe it is a good idea, but without knowing why you're doing it, it just seems like a huge imbalancing change for no particulat reason.
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Like I said there are a lot of things you would need to change to make the magic weapon one work. Though the other two are hardly game breaking.
The reason I am doing this...just ideas I am thinking of using and for fun in general.
Yes MrCharisma, the DR/magic thing is just for mooks and actually you would be surprised how many monsters do not have magical natural attacks.
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Dragon78, you're aware that PF2 has most of the changes that you've been proposing recently?
Scaling cantrips
Casting stat to damage on cantrips
Multiclassing that doesn't stunt spellcasting
Weapon damage based off dice, not static bonuses
Casting level equal to character level
Natural 20 as automatic crit
"Must have" math feats (weapon focus etc) built into the class
max HP per HD
every ancestry having 10+ ancestry feats
no need for cloaks of resistance/rings of protection
rogues get Dex to damage built into class
I mean, I've just raided your last few posts for few examples, but it seems to me increasingly that you're rejecting PF2 while at the same time advocating for turning PF1 into PF2 without realising it.
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Yeah, it also has a lot of stuff I can't stand. There is no rule you can't borrow ideas from other systems and do your own spin on them for home brew/house rules.
It also goes to show you that a Pathfinder 1.5 would have been a better direction to have gone.
To get back on subject what do people like better for magic shields, the touch AC or the vs ranged attacks option?
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Shields v touch AC makes some sense, though you might want to consider what it might mean if the attack could harm the shield. For example, Ray of Enfeeblement isn't going to do anything, but Polar Ray might.
As for ranged attacks, an action (immediate? move?) to block incoming missiles with a shield and get a bonus wouldn't be silly. Shields don't really get enough love, and certainly don't reflect how effective they are IRL.
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Yeah, it also has a lot of stuff I can't stand. There is no rule you can't borrow ideas from other systems and do your own spin on them for home brew/house rules.
...
I'm sorry, but it sounds like you want to take all the damage buffs from PF2e, basically double them, add them on top of PF1e's iterative attacks and damage buffs, and somehow end up with a balanced system?
A major change like your proposed magical weapon damage will interact with a lot of other things.
- a) Max HP isn't really that much of a boost: d10 classes get 4hp per level, or +76hp at 20 (assuming you get max hp at level 1 either way), which sounds impressive until you realize that a +5 Greatsword is doing +10d6 per hit and will eat up those extra HP in two hits. Your poor d6 casters will likely be slaughtered by archers.
- b) Are you going to re-balance the Critical Hit mechanics? Triple and Quadruple damage crits will just delete even max HP characters.
- c) Is spell damage going to be increased as well?
- d) What about healing effects? Will Breath of Life be majorly boosted or will it only be usable if the character was downed by a 'weak' hit?
- e) Are you going to increase the damage done by non-weapon using creatures to keep pace, or will dragons just become a joke compared to a guy with a sword?
- f) Will DR be boosted? How are you going to balance it so the 'One Massive Hit' characters don't just laugh at it and the 'death from a thousand cuts' characters don't just break down and cry?
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Yeah like I said there are a lot of things that would need to be changed like how crits are done, certain feats, magic weapon properties, class features that add damage, weapon base damage, etc. I would make crits do only x2 but I would still have to think of other ways to make those weapons interesting that used to be x3 to x4 crit range.
Classes that focus on unarmed strike or natural attacks would gain enhancement bonus based on class level. That is also how their damage would scale. So a high level monk's damage might be around 6d4 or even 6d6.
Bane weapons wouldn't get the extra +2 enhancement bonus and the 2d6 damage would be classified as "bane" damage and bypass DR/Hardness. Might limit how many magic weapon properties magic weapons will have as well. Like one damage based one per weapon with a few minor ones.
One day, we will get "Corefinder" from Legendary and they might have some interesting ideas that would help me out, so who knows.
Also not sure if changing the number of attacks would be good or not. So far Corefinder is giving you two attacks at level one as a full attack action and you get a third when you have a BAB+11. This is not including things like two weapon fighting.
Does anyone have any universal properties based on enhancement bonus you think all magic weapons should have I would like to know?
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Not really, but I do have a pf2 based idea that I thought I’d share.
PF2 has 3 actions. I think it would be cool if you got 3 standard actions and a move action. Because most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time.
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Not really, but I do have a pf2 based idea that I thought I’d share.
PF2 has 3 actions. I think it would be cool if you got 3 standard actions and a move action. Because most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time.
But can you make a sketch with one hand, type a short poem with the other, and try kicking down a door, all at the same time?
Because, you know, walking is a move action and chewing gum is a free action.
Wouldn’t you have to be sitting at a desk, to sketch and type at the same time? Or, have an extra pair of arms.
As for kicking down a door, if it crumbled on first impact, I don’t see why you couldn’t keep moving forward. Of course, if the door held, it would stop you cold.
You’re right of course, chewing gum would be a free action, so bad example.
@JiaYou: Good find on that Unchained thing. The 3 action round was introduced there.
I realize that the change would have massive ripple effects on the game, but the OP seemed to be open to radical ideas…
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Not really, but I do have a pf2 based idea that I thought I’d share.
PF2 has 3 actions. I think it would be cool if you got 3 standard actions and a move action. Because most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time.
But can you make a sketch with one hand, type a short poem with the other, and try kicking down a door, all at the same time?
Because, you know, walking is a move action and chewing gum is a free action.
Yeah, but you can't walk up to a door, open it, and walk into the room behind that door in one round under PF1 action economy, and that's kinda silly.
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Well this got derailed quickly.
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Can anyone think of any other abilities magic weapons, armor, and/or shields could have based on their enhancement bonus?
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Combat already ends pretty quickly in PF1, adding more damage would make combat shorter and boosting hp to compensate would make the change pointless. You could resort the whole system to increase the damage weapons deal with a targeted combat length in mind, but you'd be better off starting from scratch.
There are some under and overutilized things that could be addressed with default magic item benefits.
-Adding combat maneuver feats for each +1 to a weapon could make combat feats feel less like over specialization for a character and more like a combat specific change in tactics.
-Some abilities are too hard to counter for martials and could be addressed with default magic item effects. Letting certain weapons attack as an AoE when enchanted could help manage swarms, letting others instantly destroy segments of wall spells could keep martials from being corralled, others could reduce concealment by a level or let you pick more squares when trying to hit invisible targets.
Magic weapons should also be much harder to break. +2 hardness +10hp just doesn't do enough when it comes up.
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Bigger numbers does not always equate to more fun.
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Has anyone ever combined magic armor and cloaks of resistance so that the save bonus equal to the armor's enhancement bonus?
Bigger numbers are part of the game and I would prefer to roll 5d6+7 over 1d6+30.
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Has anyone ever combined magic armor and cloaks of resistance so that the save bonus equal to the armor's enhancement bonus?
Bigger numbers are part of the game and I would prefer to roll 5d6+7 over 1d6+30.
*crossess two more boxes on the 'stuff Dragon78 wants that are in PF2' list*
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God you must be desperate for people to play Pathfinder 2e. Also do you want me to make a list of all the crap I hate about 2e?
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Not in this thread, because that would be off-topic.
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*crossess two more boxes on the 'stuff Dragon78 wants that are in PF2' list*Has anyone ever combined magic armor and cloaks of resistance so that the save bonus equal to the armor's enhancement bonus?
Bigger numbers are part of the game and I would prefer to roll 5d6+7 over 1d6+30.
Just puttin it out there, it's very possible to make a character in PF1 who rolls 5d6 damage if you want to roll more dice.
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ignoring the OP idea to add more lethal combat stuff to magic items - most do have universal properties like adding to rarely used hardness and hit points of the object, the tough GM decision to have them glow and how much(candle, torch, lamp)? LoL
I think the home game GM should add some non-combat fun stuff/fluff to most add on bonuses. Those small details help customize your game.
Adding some magic customization based on special ingredients when creating a magic item is something also wholly in the realm of home games.
The list of special materials can easily be expanded. There's a wide range between iron, steel, darkwood, & adamantine.
The same is true of weapon/shield modifications.
Speaking personally I'm a fan of items being more flavour based e.g. instead of a longsword +1 - +5 its a magical longsword and thus (1) can overcome certain creatures resistance to damage, (2) glows blue in the presence of orcs, (3) feels light and well balanced and so on. Sure the last one does lean into the +1 to +5 and its a mechanics thing but still. Honestly I would prefer a flat bonus and more items that do other neat things.
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Can anyone think of any other abilities magic weapons, armor, and/or shields could have based on their enhancement bonus?
Instead of increasing the number of Ds it would not be more balanced than it will be increased by a higher die for each increase in enchantment (d3, d4, d6 and so) example a +2 longsword go from 1d8 to 1d12 or 1d8 to 2d6