How should Eidolins/Animal Companions/Familiars be treated for out of combat and exploration activities?
I am GMing my first campaign and one player has a familiar and one is a Summoner. I can't seem to find info about of combat activities for companions.
For example I have 3 players and when exploration starts...
Player 1 wants to search
Player 2 raise shield
Player 3 stealth
Should I let the Eidolin and Familiar to do things during this time? Would a familiar be able to "scout" and the eidolin stealth also at the same time?
Also since the Eidolon + Summoner have the same trained proficiency can the eidolin just aide everything they do anything out of combat?
In combat it would be "Act Together" Eidolin uses aide, Summoner uses pick lock then the reaction would be used for aide.
Also should companions get free perception checks when checking for traps/hidden items/enemies? My gut says no but I just wanted to double check.
This sounds like the perfect thread for greystone to go on a rant.
The rules are clear about the eidolon.
Act Together
Single ActiontoThree Actions
SummonerTandem
Source Secrets of Magic pg. 53
Frequency once per round
You and your eidolon act as one. Either you or your eidolon takes an action or activity using the same number of actions as Act Together, and the other takes a single action. For example, if you spent 2 actions to Act Together, you could cast burning hands (2 actions) and your eidolon could Strike (1 action), or your eidolon could use its Breath Weapon (2 actions) and you could Stride (1 action).This lets you each use separate exploration activities like Avoid Notice as you travel.
Not sure how I missed that when reading the ability. So easy to miss a few words. Logically I feel that would mean Mature Animal Companions and Independent familiars should be able to do this to then correct? Since they get to do one free action a round.
I do see the big thread about familiars. That thread just gives me more confusion.
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Familiars and ACs shouldn't get Exploration activities, since they are so easy to obtain (literally just a single class feat, and a lot of ancestries can get one with an ancestry feat)
Now if something happens like someone sneaking up on the party, and your AC has Scent and smells them and starts growling, that's different.
And in the end, it's really up to your GM.
Yes familiars are super easy to get. So I guess maybe I should let them do too much out of combat. The new campaign the player chose Witch and Familiar Master as the free archetype.
Just trying to figure out a good balance for the familiar.
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I would definitely expect a dog or wolf animal companion to be able to help out during exploration by following the scent of a creature the party is tracking. Or be on the lookout for hidden foes that were unwise enough to lurk upwind.
I'd also expect a bird familiar to be able to fly around inconspicuously and relay the lay of the land to the party, and perhaps some enemies that didn't think to hide themselves from aerial observation.
Familiars usually aren't useful in combat because their stats are abysmal. You can assign all their abilities to be a valet kind of thing - in which case they probably have nothing left to do exploration stuff with. But if a player assigned all their familiar's abilities to make them useful as a scout, why would you want to block the familiar from doing the one thing it's meant for?
In general, I would take a relaxed approach to exploration activities. I think it's meant more as a convenient shorthand for "while walking around, I also.." rather than a minigame where everyone is scrambling to get optimal value out of their action budget.
PFS has taken a useful stance towards pets when it comes to skill challenges, which I think can be helpful in home games too. Basically, a skill challenge will only consider real PCs when determining how many successes are needed to do well on it. And each player only gets to roll for either themselves or their pet. So an eidolon/AC/familiar doesn't raise the number of required hits, but also doesn't give extra rolls. The benefit you get for spending on it though is that more often either you or your pet will be good at the skill that needs doing. (Especially with eidolons who get a substantial stat array.)
Familiars usually aren't useful in combat because their stats are abysmal.
More than that: most of their stats are undefined.
This said, let's not forget that it's a roleplaying game. If it makes sense for a familiar to be able to use an exploration activity, the DM can certainly allow that. From earlier examples, if a hound or wolf are being used to follow a trail, it seems highly appropriate to allow a survival check for that. And if a flying "pet" were commanded to scout around, it wouldn't be game-breaking to give the party the meager +1 initiative check that comes from that, or even to allow a separate perception check for the search activity.
As DM I draw the line when a player tries to give his "pet" complex commands. Maybe Lassie can run and get the sherriff to help get Timmy out of the well, but most complex actions are going to be beyond a "pet".
I do see the big thread about familiars. That thread just gives me more confusion.
Yeah, I was going to ask how you managed to miss the war currently going on.
And to summarize the problem in an objective manner: The amount of time that a minion can be commanded for when not in combat is not defined. Current front runners for rulings are: 2 actions even when not in combat, 1 minute (the amount of time listed in the minion trait before they become controlled by the GM), or 10 minutes/indefinitely. I have more detailed thoughts on the matter here.
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This sounds like the perfect thread for greystone to go on a rant.
LOl No Rant here other than you misspelling my name. :P
2 actions even when not in combat
This would be taking the Command action and by using the Improvised Exploration Activities guidelines, making it an Exploration activity: in essence the PC spends it's activity so that the familiar can then do an activity of it's own.
I'll just casually point out that most familiars and companions aren't suited to most exploration activities as is due to a lack of intelligence and/or lack of abilities.
How smart familiars are is undefined as they literally have no stats: as such, what they can do is also undefined. For an animal companion, they can do several activities like Scout, Avoid Notice, Track, Sense Direction, Squeeze and Search: pretty much things that use the skills they get.
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This would be taking the Command action and by using the Improvised Exploration Activities guidelines, making it an Exploration activity: in essence the PC spends it's activity so that the familiar can then do an activity of it's own.
How do mounts enter into this? I don’t see “Ride” or anything of that nature in the list of Exploration Activities, and the Mounted Combat rules don’t speak to this. Am I missing something, or is every character who rides a horse in Exploration Mode using the Improvised Exploration Activities guidelines to command the horse every six seconds? Are mounted characters unable to choose an Exploration Activity in addition to this improvised Command option unless they have a special ability that allows them to double up?
How do mounts enter into this?
They really don't: movement is factored into overland movement as taking a Stride: "travel speeds are based on the equivalent of 1 action per 6 seconds". So instead of using the action to stride, you use an action to Command/Command an Animal once. This works for every activity as 1/2 speed activities are "generally based on alternating between 2 actions per 12 seconds, averaging to 1 action per 6 seconds": example "(Defend, for example, is based on using 1 action to Stride then 1 to Raise your Shield, which is why the PC moves at half Speed.)".
Quotes are from Improvising New Activities [Gamemastery Guide pg. 19]