Summoner Dual Studies

[batimpact]

I want to make sure we're applying Dual Studies coorectly.

One of our summoners has it, picking athletics for their eidolon and diplomacy for themselves. They just turned 7th level so thanks to dual studies, the eidolon is now expert in athletics and the summoner is expert in diplomacy but these proficiencies are not shared.

So the summoner wants to use their newest skill increase for diplomacy. So now, with diplomacy, the summoner is master and the eidolon is trained, correct?

If they wanted to boost their athletics instead, would it be that with athletics the summoner is trained and the eidolon is master?

[Asethe]

Why would the other become trained in the Dual Studies' chosen skills? It explicitly states that those proficiencies are not shared, and increasing them doesn't change anything in that stipulation.

A proficiency is an explicit level of a skill, not the bonus it imparts. Just because you went from Expert to Master doesn't mean the other gets Master-2 ranks because the proficiency rank is still a single, explicit rank, and nothing has overcome the Dual Studies limitation of the proficiency in those skills not being shared.

[Garulo]

Dual Studies explicitly states that you and the Eidolon are practicing skills on your own apart from each other. You each get to pick different skills and each of you advance to Expert at 7th level in those separate skills.

The line about not sharing means that for these particular skills there is NO linkage in any form between the summoner and eidolon. This is done explicitly to exempt the skills from the usual sharing of skill proficiencies that exists. The Eidolon gets NO benefit from the summoners skill ranks in that particular skill (and vv)

[Cordell Kintner]

Agreed. Boosting a Dual Studies proficiency to Master would not also make the Eidelon Trained. Normally, the Eidolon "shares your skill proficiencies". This means only the PC can increase their skills, not the Eidolon. Dual Study is an exemption to that.

By the rules as written, if the Eidolon were an Expert in Athletcs because of Dual Studies, and you wanted to be Trained, you would put the increase there. It would not affect your Eidolon, since they are already an Expert in that skill. Dual Studies would overwrite the normal sharing rule. But if you were to eventually get to Master it would increase, but at that point why even have the Dual Studies feat?

If you wanted the Eidolon to also be Trained in Diplomacy, you would technically be unable to since you can't be trained in a skill you're an expert in. However, as a GM I would allow you to use a skill increase to increase it to trained, but it would not also make you a Master in the process, since it would be similar to the example above.

Essentially, the point of the feat is to give the Eidelon a skill you aren't going to waste time in, and to give the summoner a skill that would be useless on the Eidolon. It shouldn't matter if the other is untrained in the particular skill.

[breithauptclan]

batimpact wrote:

So the summoner wants to use their newest skill increase for diplomacy. So now, with diplomacy, the summoner is master and the eidolon is trained, correct?

If they wanted to boost their athletics instead, would it be that with athletics the summoner is trained and the eidolon is master?

I can see the argument for running it either way.

The Dual Studies feat says that 'these skill proficiencies are not shared'. But it is not clear if it means specifically those two skill boosts that it gives (the increase to trained and then expert), or any boosts to those two skill choices (permanently unlinking the skill training for those two skills).

After thinking about it for a minute or ten, I would actually run it the way that batimpact is. The feat gives the two free, but unshared, skill boosts to those two skills - but any other skill increases you pick during leveling up still applies to both the Summoner and the Eidolon.