I think I get how they're spells work, but could someone explain it to me?
Also, is merging with your eidolon do anything useful? What's more, can you still use cantrips while merged?
If you could explain what your question is about the spells, exactly, it would be easier to help with that.
Merging with the eidolon could come in handy for specific cases ("my eidolon could get past this obstacles but I can't, so we merge", or the like) but doesn't have a general case that you'd want to use it for all the time.
You cannot cast spells while merged. Cantrips are no exception.
Meld Into Eidelon is for when you want all of your actions to go to your Eidelon anyway and don't want to bother putting the caster at risk w/ their lack of armor and maybe w/ AoEs going off around the party.
With coordination it's probably best to have both out, the Summoner w/ a save-based Cantrip & the Eideon w/ a move/Strike perhaps, but that's not always feasible and a Divine Summoner for example, doesn't contribute much after they've used their spell slots. It would be best for them to hide.
I have a Summoner in mind w/ a low Charisma who shouldn't bother to cast and take actions from the Eidelon.
What I'd been hoping this thread would answer is if there was a way to buff one's Eidelon for when melded (but not casting when melded obviously). That of course goes back to the disputed question of what happens to effects on the Eidelon when dismissed. Could a long buff be placed, then the Eidelon dismissed and summoned back melded w/ that buff?
(Of course I could use those buffs on others, so it's not crucial.)
If you could explain what your question is about the spells, exactly, it would be easier to help with that.
Merging with the eidolon could come in handy for specific cases ("my eidolon could get past this obstacles but I can't, so we merge", or the like) but doesn't have a general case that you'd want to use it for all the time.
You cannot cast spells while merged. Cantrips are no exception.
I should have said "How their spell casting works" instead.
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Summoner spells works like any spontaneous spellcaster (like bards, sorcerers and oracles). With some diferences in how your spellslots progress:
Until level 4 your spellslots progress normally. But since level 5 you start to "loose" your lowest level spellslots and gain 2 spellslot of your higher level and this will progress like this until you reach lvl 17 when you cannot progress your slots anymore (this is populary called of wavecasting). You also don't receive level 10 spells (but there's a lvl 20 feat that allow you to exchange a lvl 9 slot for 2 lvl 10 slots usable only to summon creatures).
Your spell repertory also works like normal except that when you loose your 2 lowest spellslots when level up you can change 2 know spells instead of just 1. Also all your spells are signature spells.
Only you can cast spells by default, your Eidolon cannot cast your spells.
But there's also some feats that allows your Eidolon to cast:
- Magical Understudy (Feat 2): Allow your eidolon to know 2 cantrips and cast them.
- Magical Adept (Feat 8): Allow your eidolon to know 1 level 1 and 1 level 2 spells that it can cast each one once per day
- Magical Master (Feat 18): Your eidolon knows more 7 spells, one for each level from 1 to 7. It can cast each of them once per day.
- Share Eidolon Magic (Feat 14): Allows the summoner to cast the eidolon spells but still shares the eidolon limit of uses per day.
What is the benefit of this sort of casting?
What is the benefit of this sort of casting?
Having more spells and at your DC would be the main benefit, though most would use them for buffs & utility since they're lower level. As usual, there's a cost-benefits analysis where this is competitive to other feats, yet not a must-have.
The "sort of casting" isn't better IMO, it's just more spells, though some might argue for an Eidelon being in better spots to cast from. I don't see Share Eidelon Magic as being useful, though I can imagine eccentric builds that use it (at a hefty cost IMO).One exception would be Shield where both you and your Eidelon would be separate casters for purposes of the 10-minute recharge.
How is this more spells when you cap at 4 spells per day?
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How is this more spells when you cap at 4 spells per day?
My answer dealt with the feats which give the Eidelon the ability to cast spells, and those would be more spells that usual for that class.
If your question is about the Summoner's usual amount of spells, 4 (+ Cantrips), then there is zero benefit when compared to a full caster who will have similar spells (and often more of them) plus all the lower-level slots too. It's a poor class for somebody focused on spellcasting!
But when compared to a martial class, those 4 high-level spells are really good to have on call, better than what one could pick up via a Dedication (or elsewhere). Summoner ultimately is a martial class via its Eidelon (nearly) matching a martial build. Instead of Rage/Sneak Attack/etc. they have those four spells (and several other tricks via feats). A standard round can be the Summoner casting a Cantrip while the Eidelon Strikes (perhaps twice, perhaps with a Stride, etc.) That's a bit more difficult for a martial to build for or to pull off in as many situations.
It's called wavecasting, and the Magus is a wavecaster too, meaning it's a martial more than a caster. It too tries to get off one Cantrip & a Strike per round, though they combine them in one roll.
If none of that addresses your question, you might need to be more specific.
How is this more spells when you cap at 4 spells per day?My answer dealt with the feats which give the Eidelon the ability to cast spells, and those would be more spells that usual for that class.
If your question is about the Summoner's usual amount of spells, 4 (+ Cantrips), then there is zero benefit when compared to a full caster who will have similar spells (and often more of them) plus all the lower-level slots too. It's a poor class for somebody focused on spellcasting!
But when compared to a martial class, those 4 high-level spells are really good to have on call, better than what one could pick up via a Dedication (or elsewhere). Summoner ultimately is a martial class via its Eidelon (nearly) matching a martial build. Instead of Rage/Sneak Attack/etc. they have those four spells (and several other tricks via feats). A standard round can be the Summoner casting a Cantrip while the Eidelon Strikes (perhaps twice, perhaps with a Stride, etc.) That's a bit more difficult for a martial to build for or to pull off in as many situations.
It's called wavecasting, and the Magus is a wavecaster too, meaning it's a martial more than a caster. It too tries to get off one Cantrip & a Strike per round, though they combine them in one roll.
If none of that addresses your question, you might need to be more specific.
It's exactly as Castilliano said. In practice the summoner is a martial that gain 4 top level spells. Usually as the eidolon is who face the perils of combat directly the summoner use his spells to support it. For example, a divine/primal summoner can use his spells to heal or buff the eidolon or even do additional non-attack damage like electric arc as "3º" action ignoring the MAP.
Also the summoner could act as off-support of the party once he can also use his spells to any other party members too.
IMO the summoner is who have the currently best usage of divine tradition due the lack of this tradition in offensive power.
As The Raven Black said the summoner also is very good in MCD with spellcaster like sorcerer/oracle once both use CHA as key stat. You will "sacrifice" some feats that you would use to improve the eidolon, but this allows a summoner to provide a better support with spells and if used in conjunction with a spellcasting this could give to summoner a good amount of spells to use making it an exceptional support spellcaster.
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I think I get it.
Thanks to all who answered. :)
I do have another question, but I will put it its own thread.