| SuperBidi |
I'm looking at the Psychic, trying to figure out what one can do with it, and I think I've found a nice exploit. As a Silent Whisper Psychic, you can cast Message to give one ally a Stride or Step. So, if you Ready such a spell, you can interrupt any kind of action you want as long as a Step or Stride is enough to be out of range.
Example would be: If the boss strikes an ally, I cast Message on the ally. When the boss Strikes, your ally can Step/Stride out of range and the boss action is wasted.
Same (and even worse) could be done against spells (as long as there is cover close enough to your ally to break line of sight/effect).
It's costly (2 actions + 2 reactions) and as a GM I wouldn't increase MAP, but the impact is also very strong, especially against a spellcaster.
| Onkonk |
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Example would be: If the boss strikes an ally, I cast Message on the ally. When the boss Strikes, your ally can Step/Stride out of range and the boss action is wasted.
If you deem this as a valid use of the Ready trigger then this is already possible with Strike + Ready as an example. I don't think the timing of these things is very clearly layed out by the rules so expect a lot of GM variance on this topic.
| Castilliano |
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There have been discussions about whether PF2 allows that sort of interruption w/ Ready. And there's been no resolution. It's along the lines of once the fire leaves the dragon's mouth, it's too late to prevent. (Or use a beam of light for ultimate speed.) Since melee combat involves implied bobbing and weaving, how does one determine which blow's the real one?
Namely, if the enemy is swinging some say it's too late.
There's a moment w/o a Strike then a moment w/ one and there's no room to backtrack and disrupt that Strike. Of course lots of feats specifically call out they can do this sort of retro-causality, but that's their specialty.
And if allowed to occur before the Strike, the enemy then hasn't attacked yet so can target a new opponent (or maybe even choose another action).
This rests on their being no mid-Strike moment in which to act.
Of course, longer actions, like say a Minotaur's Powerful Charge, could more easily be justified though they might also have enough movement left to still get to the target; they're choices for their action aren't necessarily locked in.
Two-action spells could fall into that "longer" category, but then when does the caster aim? If at the end of casting, like in PF1, then they simply choose a new target which in a normal game should be available, especially if you're around watching them cast.
Again, there was no resolution in those discussions so I'm just presenting the argument, not a final ruling. There were, of course, counterarguments though anything deeper should move to the Rules Forum.
| SuperBidi |
SuperBidi wrote:If you deem this as a valid use of the Ready trigger then this is already possible with Strike + Ready as an example. I don't think the timing of these things is very clearly layed out by the rules so expect a lot of GM variance on this topic.
Example would be: If the boss strikes an ally, I cast Message on the ally. When the boss Strikes, your ally can Step/Stride out of range and the boss action is wasted.
The difference being that the boss can just ignore the readied ally, when it's not possible for the Message trick as it works on any of your allies (the boss has to attack you for it not to work).
...
You're right. I haven't thought about the rules implications. I always considered that these kind of strategies were working but were mostly limited to desperate cases as in most circumstances you don't want to waste your turn to take a chance at surviving one blow. Well, then, it's more niche but it should work for some long activities, like Minotaur Charge.
I'm still trying to find out what the Psychic is good at, and right now, my conclusion is still "nothing". I have hard time to see why would anyone play one considering that most of its powers are really subpar and, unlike the Alchemist, not especially unique.