What's the most reach we can get on a PC in 2e right now?
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Plant Eidolon I think with 25ft with one specific attack and picking both size feats or evolution surge it.
Giant Barbarian can also reach 25 with the Lunge feat and their size feats that is also a specific attack.
Any class with Lunge reach weapon and Enlarge lvl 4 can also reach the 25ft.
Staff Magus using a non-cantrip/non-focus spell can reach 50ft using something like a lvl 10 spell scroll or 45ft using their own slots in the lunging spellstrike.
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And let's not forget the extending rune from Secrets of Magic.
(Not quite what I'm look for, but fun enough to warrant an honorable mention.)
And let's not forget the extending rune from Secrets of Magic.
(Not quite what I'm look for, but fun enough to warrant an honorable mention.)
Wow, hadn't spotted that yet. Super cool.
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I'm looking for reach that is easily repeatable (that is, at least semi permanent), and generally persists in between the user's turns.
Wow, hadn't spotted that yet. Super cool.And let's not forget the extending rune from Secrets of Magic.
(Not quite what I'm look for, but fun enough to warrant an honorable mention.)
Yeah, and since it's not a ranged Strike, you benefit from your full strength-based attack and damage modifiers. You can even flank with it from WAAAAAY OOOOVVVVERRR THEEERRREEE!
Only thing you might have to worry about is cover.
I'm imagining a cavalry knight with an extendo-lance or a villain with a fearsome magical "chain sword."
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I'm looking for reach that is easily repeatable (that is, at least semi permanent), and generally persists in between the user's turns.Wow, hadn't spotted that yet. Super cool.And let's not forget the extending rune from Secrets of Magic.
(Not quite what I'm look for, but fun enough to warrant an honorable mention.)
Yeah, and since it's not a ranged Strike, you benefit from your full strength-based attack and damage modifiers. You can even flank with it from WAAAAAY OOOOVVVVERRR THEEERRREEE!
Only thing you might have to worry about is cover.
I'm imagining a cavalry knight with an extendo-lance or a villain with a fearsome magical "chain sword."
Ever since I heard of that Rune, I wanted it for my Animal (Deer) Barbarian.
And let's not forget the extending rune from Secrets of Magic.
(Not quite what I'm look for, but fun enough to warrant an honorable mention.)
Yes already seen it, and changed my barbarian advice to get this on a secondary weapon rather than worry about a ranged attack. 60ft reach once per round is so cool.
Ever since I heard of that Rune, I wanted it for my Animal (Deer) Barbarian.
Weapon only, sadly. Won't work for your antlers.
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Yeah, and since it's not a ranged Strike, you benefit from your full strength-based attack and damage modifiers. You can even flank with it from WAAAAAY OOOOVVVVERRR THEEERRREEE!
I don't think you would provide flanking since the reach is only active for the one attack.
You would certainly benefit from any flanking position that you had at the time of the attack though.
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Yeah, and since it's not a ranged Strike, you benefit from your full strength-based attack and damage modifiers. You can even flank with it from WAAAAAY OOOOVVVVERRR THEEERRREEE!I don't think you would provide flanking since the reach is only active for the one attack.
You would certainly benefit from any flanking position that you had at the time of the attack though.
Quite right. The requirements for flanking are as follows:
If my reach is 60, the enemy is 40 feet away, and I meet all the other requirements listed above, then there is no question that I receive flanking benefits. My ally may not however since, as you say, it only applies on the singular attack.
I'm now imaging multiple foes with these weapons flanking from extreme distances. XD
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I know this is fantasy RPG, but how do the GM storytell a 60 ft. reach attack?
If you are wielding a greatsword 60 ft. from where your feets are, you should trip your self due to overbalance.
And wouldn’t any enemy on the way to your target be able to hit your arms as they pass bye them, if they have a relevant reaction avaible?
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I know this is fantasy RPG, but how do the GM storytell a 60 ft. reach attack?
If you are wielding a greatsword 60 ft. from where your feets are, you should trip your self due to overbalance.
And wouldn’t any enemy on the way to your target be able to hit your arms as they pass bye them, if they have a relevant reaction avaible?
The special effect is up to you. Maybe it is just a magical force projection from the end of your weapon, maybe it is elastagirl stretch, maybe a copy appears at range and is twined to your weapon for a strike. I do like Raving Dork's Inspector Gadget extendo lance
If you don't like it don't include it in your games when you GM.
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If you have reach on handwraps I can picture the handwraps partially unwrapping from your hands so that they can whip out and smack people.
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For chained or hinged weapons they could simply extend, appearing to have a life of their own, much like Spawn's chains.
For unarmed strikes, it could be a spiritual projection, soundwaves/air/ki, or something akin to Mr. Fantastic or Dhalsim.
A rigid staff-like weapon might simply elongate, much like the staff of the Monkey King.
Or that Spring Mustachio guy like One Punch Man would be a good example that applies for most piercing weapons.
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I feel like how you explain the magic of the 60 foot reach attack is dependent on the weapon it's used on, and something best left up to the player who puts the rune on their weapon or the GM who puts the rune on a weapon the PCs find.
Since there's no one solution for "what a rune effect looks like" as that unnecessarily restricts creativity.
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Another cool visual is a sword that opens up a portal/rift in space when you swing it so that the end of the sword hits the target.
Another cool visual is a sword that opens up a portal/rift in space when you swing it so that the end of the sword hits the target.
Ooh. :D
I know this is fantasy RPG, but how do the GM storytell a 60 ft. reach attack?
If you are wielding a greatsword 60 ft. from where your feets are, you should trip your self due to overbalance.
And wouldn’t any enemy on the way to your target be able to hit your arms as they pass bye them, if they have a relevant reaction avaible?
Powerpole!
Yeah, and since it's not a ranged Strike, you benefit from your full strength-based attack and damage modifiers. You can even flank with it from WAAAAAY OOOOVVVVERRR THEEERRREEE!I don't think you would provide flanking since the reach is only active for the one attack.
You would certainly benefit from any flanking position that you had at the time of the attack though.
Quite right. The requirements for flanking are as follows:
If my reach is 60, the enemy is 40 feet away, and I meet all the other requirements listed above, then there is no question that I receive flanking benefits. My ally may not however since, as you say, it only applies on the singular attack.
I'm now imaging multiple foes with these weapons flanking from extreme distances. XD
I don't believe that this is correct actually. I believe it has been answered that a Fighter who has the Lunge ability cannot flank from 10 feet away because flanking requires the enemy to be within specifically 'your' range. And Lunge doesn't increase your range, it is a specific ability that has a longer range than normal. A reach weapon counts because it increases your natural range.
By this logic, a go-go gadget extendo-sword would not allow you to gain the benefits of flanking because of the attack.
But then...if you are making the attack then it makes sense that your ally on the other side would still be able to keep the enemy's attention enough that you would have an easier time hitting them. So it logically does make sense.
I can see an argument both ways.
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Well, it says I have reach, and I check every box for flanking at the time of my attack.
To my knowledge there's nothing stating it has to be your base reach, or permanent reach, or that you must have had the reach for x amount of time, or anything like that.
I've quoted the rules. Do you have any rules, citations, or sources supporting your beliefs/memory?
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Well, it says I have reach, and I check every box for flanking at the time of my attack.
To my knowledge there's nothing stating it has to be your base reach, or permanent reach, or that you must have had the reach for x amount of time, or anything like that.
I've quoted the rules. Do you have any rules, citations, or sources supporting your beliefs/memory?
I don't know where the ruling was. I distinctly remember reading it on these forums, and I remember it being talked about a decent bit.
Thinking on it, I think the answer was actually given about Attack's of Opportunity. Not flanking. Can you make an AoO with the Lunge ability? No, and the reason it doesn't work inherently is because AoO states that the triggering creature must be within your reach, not the reach of one of your abilities.
There is an entire other feat that does allow that in fact, Lunging Stance.
Flanking uses the exact same language. To flank an enemy, that enemy must be within your reach. It even specifies that if you are wielding a reach weapon, the reach of that weapon counts for the purposes of flanking. It wouldn't need to specify that if flanking worked for the reach of any of your special melee abilities.
So no, RAW, the rune does not allow you to flank or gain the benefits of flanking from 60 (or 120) feet away.
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Well, it says I have reach, and I check every box for flanking at the time of my attack.
To my knowledge there's nothing stating it has to be your base reach, or permanent reach, or that you must have had the reach for x amount of time, or anything like that.
I've quoted the rules. Do you have any rules, citations, or sources supporting your beliefs/memory?
I don't know where the ruling was. I distinctly remember reading it on these forums, and I remember it being talked about a decent bit.
Thinking on it, I think the answer was actually given about Attack's of Opportunity. Not flanking. Can you make an AoO with the Lunge ability? No, and the reason it doesn't work inherently is because AoO states that the triggering creature must be within your reach, not the reach of one of your abilities.
There is an entire other feat that does allow that in fact, Lunging Stance.
Flanking uses the exact same language. To flank an enemy, that enemy must be within your reach. It even specifies that if you are wielding a reach weapon, the reach of that weapon counts for the purposes of flanking. It wouldn't need to specify that if flanking worked for the reach of any of your special melee abilities.
So no, RAW, the rune does not allow you to flank or gain the benefits of flanking from 60 (or 120) feet away.
What are you talking about? It definitely does. You can't get AoOs with Lunge because Lunge doesn't affect Strikes that aren't made with the Lunge action, and you can't get AoOs with this rune either. Whatever ruling you're talking about is very obviously saying you cannot use special actions that modify Strikes (like Lunge, or this feat) to extend your reach when another action calls on you to make a Strike, which is part of the very basic subordinate actions rules.
Flanking is entirely different, and you can flank with Lunge as well. The Extending Rune explicitly CHANGES your reach for the Strike, there is no reasonable argument that you don't have the enemy in your reach when making the Strike, they need to be in your reach for you to Strike them at all!
"Strike: You attack with a weapon you're wielding or with an unarmed attack, targeting one creature within your reach (for a melee attack) or within range (for a ranged attack). Roll the attack roll for the weapon or unarmed attack you are using, and compare the result to the target creature's AC to determine the effect. See Attack Rolls and Damage for details on calculating your attack and damage rolls."
You very clearly can gain the benefits of Flanking on the Strike you make with this rune, though you likely can never provide flanking for an ally's attack as they will necessarily occur outside of the action that has extended reach.
-snip-
The trigger for AoO says that the enemy must be within your reach.
The rules for Flanking says that in order to gain the benefits of flanking both you and your ally must have the enemy within reach.
Lunge and Extending Rune both give you an extended reach for a specific attack, but do not increase "your" reach. Thus neither of them are valid for triggering AoO or Flanking.
The only difference is that AoO is an action while Flanking is a condition. But since the trigger for both of them use the same wording, they can be treated exactly the same way for our purposes.
Now, the argument against this is that AoO is a specific action that could not use the properties of a different action such as Lunge while Flanking is not an action and thus it could be that in this instance your reach could refer to your reach with any ability available to you. This would, of course, include your Extending Rune.
However, the way that I read it, whenever the rules refer to something being triggered by or tied to your reach, it is talking about your normal, standard reach with your standard strikes. Not with any unique abilities like Lunge, Extending Rune, Sever Space, or any other similar ability. Those items and abilities don't increase your reach, but rather they give you a new ability that has a reach outside of your own.
So IMO, the RAW way of reading these abilities, they do not count for the purposes of flanking. The fact that the Flanking rules has to specifically point out that a reach weapon allows you to use that reach weapon's reach to calculate flanking, as if this is an exception to the rules, seems to back up my interpretation of the rules.
But as I said earlier, I can see where there is ambiguity here and how it also makes sense to interpret it differently.
Lunge and Extending Rune both give you an extended reach for a specific attack, but do not increase "your" reach. Thus neither of them are valid for triggering AoO or Flanking.Make a Strike with a melee weapon, increasing your reach by 5 feet for that Strike.You Strike with the weapon, and you have reach 60 feet for the Strike.Emphasis mine. Seems like they both increase "your" reach at the moment you make the attack. The original question isn't whether you can use the reach with Lunge/Extending to threaten flanking for other people to benefit, but whether you benefit from flanking on a Strike with Lunge/Extending, which seems like an unequivocal "yes" to me.
"you have a reach of 60 feet for the Strike" implies to me that you don't have that reach for any purposes other than the strike.
Again, the real question is whether Flanking functions differently than AoO because it is a condition rather than a specific ability, despite using the same wording. I don't personally believe so, but I also see the reasoning for either interpretation.
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There are different kinds of reach. There's no "weapon reach" versus "personal reach." It's either yes or no, you have reach or you don't.
Unintentionally or not, it looks to me like you're making up rules we're none exist.
Extending rune only changes the reach for a specific interact activity, it does not change your flanking reach, you can't combine with other actions like power attack and can't use maneuvers with it.
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Extending rune only changes the reach for a specific interact activity, it does not change your flanking reach, you can't combine with other actions like power attack and can't use maneuvers with it.
There are no restrictions on timing in flanking. It is a condition that is evaualted as required. The information on flat footed makes it clear that it can be for as small an instance as an attack.
The extending rune give you an activity that grants your weapon Reach. Weapon Reach is explicitly mentioned in Flanking. You then take the Strike action as part of that activity for which you have Reach.This is a rules situation anyone could create say by quick draw a long spear to strike an enemy at range.
The strike could potentially gain flanking.
It is just wrong to say you can't use extending rune to get flanking. You check flanking and flatfooted when it is relevant.
Wait I got it wrong, I thought that was written that you would grant flanking to the person 60ft away just be holding the extending rune weapon, technically you would gain the flanking if you are using the activity at the moment.
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There is no such thing as "flanking reach." There is flanking, and then there is reach. Two distinct rules.
Wait I got it wrong, I thought that was written that you would grant flanking to the person 60ft away just be holding the extending rune weapon, technically you would gain the flanking if you are using the activity at the moment.
Nope. You could only grant flanking to yourself, and only for your two-action attack as part of activating the rune. It's a big part of what makes the rune even remotely balanced (that and the action cost and inability to combine it with many other abilities).
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Thanks for all your suggestions on how to explain the extending rune storywise.
Could you put extending Rune on your Handwraps of Mighty Blows and grapple 60 ft away and what would happen then???
You cannot do the grapple because it is not a Strike. However, some abilities like Furious Grab would work because they are used after a successful Strike. They would give the condition to the target as usual. I would rule however that you had to extend the natural attack that makes them grappled
Wait I got it wrong, I thought that was written that you would grant flanking to the person 60ft away just be holding the extending rune weapon.
Agreed that would be too much, and is not what this rune does.
Wait I got it wrong, I thought that was written that you would grant flanking to the person 60ft away just be holding the extending rune weapon.Agreed that would be too much, and is not what this rune does.
Yeah, what effectively amounts to a free +2 to hit at all times for the price of two of these runes would just be WAY too good to be true. Positively insane!