Hero's Defiance for Negative Healing


Rules Discussion


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Forgive me if this is asked some where else as I could not find any answer on it.

I am wanting to play a dhampir evil tennets champion. Everything is set up to work with both negative and positive healing until the level 19 class focus spell that is given called Hero's Defiance. It only provides positive healing so it is something that I would not be able to use.

Is this an oversight as there are other options given for negative healing, for example instead of lay on hands you have touch of corruption.

Thanks


No, that indeed looks unusable. Spell has the 'healing' and 'positive' traits, so it should cause positive damage to a Dhampir character. It is also given to all Champions as a level 19 class feature. So not a feat choice that you can opt out of.

The only thing I can suggest is to work with GM to make something that will work. Either remove the traits and let it heal the Dhampir Champion, or homebrew a replacement level 10 focus spell to use instead.


Currently unusable as breithauptclan mentioned.

But since it's a capstone, I am quite sure it's going to be modified ( it's the first time I read about it on this forum, so maybe paizo isn't even aware of it ).

I'd freely go using it as a Damphir anyway, in the meanwhile

A little bump!


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breithauptclan wrote:

No, that indeed looks unusable. Spell has the 'healing' and 'positive' traits, so it should cause positive damage to a Dhampir character. It is also given to all Champions as a level 19 class feature. So not a feat choice that you can opt out of.

The only thing I can suggest is to work with GM to make something that will work. Either remove the traits and let it heal the Dhampir Champion, or homebrew a replacement level 10 focus spell to use instead.

Actually it would just not work on a Dhampir, it wouldn't damage them, as nowhere does it say that it deals positive damage. It only heals. The positive trait is a signal that it does something with positive energy, typically damaging undead and/or healing living beings. Same with the negative trait, which does the opposite. But still, the effect only does what it says it does.

There's a reason spells like heal go out of their way to say how they affect living and undead targets while things like Ghost Charge only mention positive damage. It's because one is meant to do both, and the other is not.

All that being said, it's still unusable as healing, so that doesn't really change the answer to the question at hand.


I think he meant "unusable" as "suicidal" for the Damphir ( since there would be no use in "using it" ).

Horizon Hunters

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Just wanted to point out, if an effect only does Positive Healing and it targets something with Negative Healing, it would just do nothing. Hero's Defiance does not mention causing damage to creatures with negative healing, so if you use it you are just immune.


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Aw3som3-117 wrote:
Actually it would just not work on a Dhampir, it wouldn't damage them, as nowhere does it say that it deals positive damage. It only heals.

Ah, that's right. So only ineffective.

Still, definitely needs some houseruling for 20th level Dhampir Champions.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

With skeletons now being an option, and death knights being an archetype that some will want, having the level 19 class ability that is supposed to be really powerful do literally nothing to those with negative healing is a significant issue for some characters.
I'm confident that it'll be houseruled for most that would get that far, but having an official erratta would be a good thing, there's no downside I see for removing the positive trait for those with negative healing.

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