Act together

[HumbleGamer]

Sorry to bother you all again.

I know it had already been discussed, but came up during a discussion with friends and couldn't help to clear all of this ( couldn't also find the thread I previously discussed and asked for advices ).

Quote:

You and your eidolon act as one. Either you or your eidolon takes an action or activity using the same number of actions as Act Together, and the other takes a single action. For example, if you spent 2 actions to Act Together, you could cast burning hands (2 actions) and your eidolon could Strike (1 action), or your eidolon could use its Breath Weapon (2 actions) and you could Stride (1 action).

2 things were pointed out.

The first one is that Act together says that

Quote:

Either you or your eidolon takes an action or activity using the same number of actions as Act Together, and the other takes a single action.

which means that it has to be a single activity which may cost from 1 to 3 actions, meaning separate actions can't be taken.

For example

Using act together with the eidolon toperform a strike would result in the summoner getting 1 action from act together, loosing 1 action.

Using act together with the eidolon to cast Dragon's Breath would result in the summoner getting 1 action from act together ( 3 actions total, as any other character ).

Using act together with the summoenr to cast a 3 action summon spell would result in the eidolon getting 1 action ( 4 in total ).

This way, nobody is going to use act together to achieve the first example, obviously.

It also means that you won't be able to use 4 separate actions ( since it's a single action ).

So, for example, no Strike + Strike + Stride + intimidate. or any other similar action sequence involving 4 separate actions.

The second one is[ about the tandem trait

Quote:

Actions with this trait involve you and your eidolon acting in concert. You can't use a tandem action if either you or your eidolon can't act, if you haven't Manifested your Eidolon, or if you've Manifested your Eidolon in a way where it isn't a separate entity (such as with the Meld into Eidolon feat). Tandem actions often let both you and your eidolon take separate actions, but these must be actions taken separately by you and your eidolon; you can't use a tandem action to take another tandem action.

So, let's go back to the Act together action.

If you use a one/two/three-action action ( or activity ), the other will be left with a single action which can't be used for a tandem action, because it's already from a tandem action. So it's not clear how is tandem movement supposed to work.

---

I remember during a past discussion people saying that the summoner can use any combination of actions for a total of 4 with its eidolon, but rules seem to claim the opposite ( unless I misunderstood them or lost a part ).

Can't find anything which says that the summoner has a pool of 3 to begin with, and also what bothers me most is the act together examples which only involves 3 actions.

What's the point in using examples involving 3 actions if were supposed to already share actions with my eidolon to begin with?

Couldn't they have used instead more detailed examples involving a total of 4 actions? Turning the one provided by the "act together" feat

Quote:

For example, if you spent 2 actions to Act Together, you could cast burning hands (2 actions) and your eidolon could Strike (1 action), or your eidolon could use its Breath Weapon (2 actions) and you could Stride (1 action).

into something like this:

Quote:

For example, if you spent 2 actions to Act Together, you could cast burning hands (2 actions) and your eidolon could Strike (1 action) and stride with the last action you have, or your eidolon could use its Breath Weapon (2 actions) and you could Stride (1 action) and then stride, with your last action.

I am probably ( definitely ) overthinking about it, but it's getting kinda hard for me to grasp the whole meaning given a specific action which doesn't cover the whole class.

Please, help me better understanding all of this ( again :( ) by providing new examples or correcting mine, so I can also show a better explanation to my group too.

[Ascalaphus]

How it works is like this (assuming your eidolon is already manifested):

Your turn starts. You get your three actions and reaction, just like any other character would, because nothing in the rules changed that.

Whenever you want to do something yourself or have your eidolon do something, you pay for that from your pool of actions.

If you use Act Together, then one of you does an activity that costs 1, 2 or 3 actions from the shared pool, and the other does a 1 action activity. This seems to be where you go off the rails, because you don't have to spend ALL of your actions on Act Together. Whatever you didn't use is still in your pool.

For example, after starting your turn and getting a pool of 3 actions, you decide to Act Together so that you Intimidate and your eidolon makes a Strike. Those are both 1-action activities so the [1, 1] Act Together costs you 1 action from your total budget of 3, and you will have 2 left. Now you can let your eidolon Strike and Strike again.

The whole point of Act Together is that it allows one of the characters to use X actions and the other 1, but pay only X actions in total.

Other tandem feats are similar; Tandem Movement for example costs 1 action but lets both you and your eidolon Stride, so you get 1+1 for a cost of only 1.

You can't tandem inside a tandem. So if you used Act Together to let your eidolon use a 3-action ability and you have 1 action left over, you can't spend that action to Tandem Movement.

However, you can do two entirely separate tandems in a turn. For example, you use Tandem Movement for 1 action to move yourself and your eidolon, and still have 2 actions left. Then you use Act Together to cast electric arc (2 actions), while your eidolon makes a Strike (using the extra action from Act Together).

[HumbleGamer]

Thank you very much Ascalaphus.

[Squiggit]

HumbleGamer wrote:

So, for example, no Strike + Strike + Stride + intimidate. or any other similar action sequence involving 4 separate actions.

Uh, why not?

Act Together(Intimidate + Stride) is one action, then you can spend your remaining two actions on strikes.

[Frostgoblin]

HumbleGamer wrote:

Sorry to bother you all again.

I know it had already been discussed, but came up during a discussion with friends and couldn't help to clear all of this ( couldn't also find the thread I previously discussed and asked for advices ).

Quote:

You and your eidolon act as one. Either you or your eidolon takes an action or activity using the same number of actions as Act Together, and the other takes a single action. For example, if you spent 2 actions to Act Together, you could cast burning hands (2 actions) and your eidolon could Strike (1 action), or your eidolon could use its Breath Weapon (2 actions) and you could Stride (1 action).

2 things were pointed out.

The first one is that Act together says that

Quote:

Either you or your eidolon takes an action or activity using the same number of actions as Act Together, and the other takes a single action.

which means that it has to be a single activity which may cost from 1 to 3 actions, meaning separate actions can't be taken.

For example

Using act together with the eidolon toperform a strike would result in the summoner getting 1 action from act together, loosing 1 action.

Using act together with the eidolon to cast Dragon's Breath would result in the summoner getting 1 action from act together ( 3 actions total, as any other character ).

Using act together with the summoenr to cast a 3 action summon spell would result in the eidolon getting 1 action ( 4 in total ).

This way, nobody is going to use act together to achieve the first example, obviously.

It also means that you won't be able to use 4 separate actions ( since it's a single action ).

So, for example, no Strike + Strike + Stride + intimidate. or any other similar action sequence involving 4 separate actions.

The second one is[ about the tandem trait

Quote:

Actions with this trait involve you and your eidolon acting in concert. You can't use a tandem action if either you or your eidolon can't act, if

...

You ultimately misunderstood how act together works, act together is basically a better version of those feats that martials to do three things with two actions, you use actions to activate act together with either the summoner or the Eidolon and the other gets an extra action, and since the Eidolon shares actions with the summoner you effectively get 4 actions (same number as other characters with a minion or animal companion, but more flexible), so the summoner can act together to cast burning hands and the Eidolon attack, and then there is a last action that can be used by the Eidolon to attack again, or the summoner strides away or intimidade.