So What Do You Guys Think of Traits?

[Mark Hoover 330]

Algarik wrote:

VoodistMonk wrote:

Lol @ making someone roleplay Reactionary. My goodness.

What if they took Paragon of Speed, instead? Exact same thing, but you weren't picked on as a child to the point of being a jumpy little b!tch... I guess? Just fast. How do you roleplay that?

By going first in initiative...

It doesn't have to be complicated or even part of every interaction your character have. You can simply roleplay it by describing your character as someone with good reaction, that's it.

Some trait/feat/ability will have bigger influence on your character roleplay, some will have less.

You describe to me how your character got this Trait in their backstory: they're just ridiculously fast and thus get a +2 on Init. Cool. I have nothing to add, nothing to subtract as a GM.

Later on, in a tavern during Downtime, I have your party sitting around planning their next adventure. If you don't care to RP then again, fine; no harm no foul and I won't reward/penalize you in any way.

Then again, if you have your PC on high alert, specifically describing this "paragon of speed" as sitting kind of half in their chair, half out, constantly looking around the bar for potential action (+2 to initiative simulated as them constantly anticipating trouble), maybe I mention that out of the corner of your eye, about 10' from where you're sitting, you spot a female wait staff starting to stumble forward with a tray full of drinks.

YOU get to act in a Surprise round, before the rest of the party. Your character is, say, one of the VM specials, say a half-elf carnivalist/sylvan trickster rogue with an Improved Familiar which is a Homunculus that normally helps you deliver SA damage.

Well, in the Surprise round you beat the woman's initiative by 2. Springing from your chair you're able to take a 5' step without using a Move action, so you and your familiar are within 5' of her just as she starts to tumble. You make a Grapple check to catch the waitress while your homunculus flies up under the tray, righting it mid air and keeping the drinks from spilling!

Well... turns out this waitress just HAPPENS to know a rumor from another bar patron about a secret door in the dungeon you're all discussing. She offers to share that with your character... IF you dance with her! The two of you have a fine revel, you make a new friend in town, AND you get an NPC Boon, all because you chose to RP your Trait.

… OF course, it wouldn't be a "Hoover" game if this didn't also have some balancing negative consequence to it. Turns out the waitress has an ex that hasn't quite gotten over her. After a couple sessions of your PC working with the waitress during Downtime, suddenly a gang of toughs shows up outside the bar. They've heard how powerful your party is so they have enough muscle to actually put up a bit of a fight, and the leader of the gang is calling YOU out by name.

It turns into an 80's bully movie scene, with the PCs taking a couple hits but basically putting the gang in its place. This activity as well opens up RP possibilities for me to exploit as a GM. Now your powers aren't just known by bar adventurers and the one kobold that managed to escape at level 1; now the whole town knows who you are and some of what you can do. More than that, they know you're good friends with this waitress.

Your party goes off and adventures. When you return, the waitress reveals she got beat up for even more info about you. Now it turns out that a coven of witches, thinking you're not only do-gooders protecting this town but that YOU personally need a good smackdown for stealing their "hex" powers, have obtained critical knowledge that can help them defeat the party. In a side quest, between adventures, you're going to have to stop this coven that's been secretly harassing the town for years, once and for all!

Of course, when you DO inevitably defeat the witches... since you've been RP'ing your Paragon of Speed so much over the course of like, 8 levels of game play, when you return to town the party is hailed as heroes and given all kinds of minor NPC Boons like permanent Cost of Living discounts and such. YOU personally, however, receive a visit from a spirit representing the will of an actual Witch's Patron, namely a Patron of Agility. The spirit imparts a Trait that gives a +1 on all Acrobatics checks either the PC or his Familiar makes. What's more, the sprit offers a way to call it once a month; what that will lead to I don't know yet.

All of this flows from RPing your Trait at my table. I've given such boon paths to the Barbarian I mentioned above and one guy that plays a ratfolk Investigator/Wizard.

Frankly, most players just don't want to RP their Traits and Feats; they honestly don't want to play-act a role at my tables to begin with, any more than describing combat against monsters for treasure. That's fine; there's no mandate that says you have to.

I enjoy talking in funny voices, ad-libbing exposition and acting out scenes as if they were dramas. That's half the fun of this game for me. People that play along with that, people that help me get that kind of fun out of gaming, generally see their efforts rewarded. It doesn't matter if either of us is any GOOD at those acting skills mind you; just that we had fun doing it!

[Algarik]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Then again, if you have your PC on high alert, specifically describing this "paragon of speed" as sitting kind of half in their chair, half out, constantly looking around the bar for potential action (+2 to initiative simulated as them constantly anticipating trouble), maybe I mention that out of the corner of your eye, about 10' from where you're sitting, you spot a female wait staff starting to stumble forward with a tray full of drinks.

YOU get to act in a Surprise round, before the rest of the party. Your character is, say, one of the VM specials, say a half-elf carnivalist/sylvan trickster rogue with an Improved Familiar which is a Homunculus that normally helps you deliver SA damage

This, in my opinion, is a bit too heavy for a simple +2 initiative. I'm not saying you're playing wrong at all, but imo this makes the trait do more than its intented purposes, which is to give +2 initiative. This makes traits overpowered or underpowered based on their name and how players justify them.

At my table, a trait that gives +2 initiative would be relevent when initiative is rolled, i wouldn't allow it to gift you with auto-sucess perception check, which seems to be the case as how the character in the example avoided surprise.

To take the example further, what would happen if someone picked the princess or prince trait? Would they get increase wealth as per the rich parent trait as well? Would they have a free diplomatic immunity as well? The trait is supposed to give +1 to diplomacy and intimidate.

Of course, if you want to tell that kind of stories it's 100% fine. One of my players in my current campaign is playing a minor noble from a remote area, and he does get a bit more free pass on some legal aspect within his country. However, he built a character and invested multiple ressources devoted to being a ''noble'', not a only mere trait. His Paladin have knowledge(nobility), knowledge(history), Perform(Singing), Ride, and a few other skills that aren't that great just to justify being a credible noble. I wouldn't allow someone to have all those social benefits simply by picking one trait.

[VoodistMonk]

Some time ago, and I don't know exactly when, or even remotely why, but I just gave up on trying to maximize anything. Lol.

I do try to paint a picture with my character choices... I want the character sheet to read like a biography. Traits, alternative racial features, class/archetype selection... it all has to tell my story. Sure, there is a background, a story of how I got here... but unless you are starting with class levels, nobody cares about your background as a "soldier" when you started as a Wizard.

I took a look at the Third Eye trait, because it is silly and fun. And then I had to find a character to build around that trait... naturally, I had to. I chose an Eyebiter Mesmerist because it has the word "eye" in it. And I found a mask from Lamashtu that has a 3rd eye that opens... and now I have entire Changeling Cult/Coven that is turning into its own adventure/campaign. I love traits.

I just don't think backstory has to be something that is overly developed or even mentioned or roleplayed if the player is invested in their character and plays A [any] character consistently. I have had characters I never wrote a backstory for, but roleplayed very well [I think]. I played them true to how I wanted them to be, and I made choices multiclassing and picking up feats/abilities that told thr story I wanted to tell.

Want to hear a story about my character getting better? I just took a level of Ranger and can now use Panache with my bow. How did this fit into the narrative of Variel's life? Well, he started his adult life getting involved with the wrong people, became a pirate before his patents sent a retriever to fetch him ans send him to a monastary in Kyonin. Variel calmed down, figured out what he wanted to do, and joined the Kyonin Rangers.

Variel was built as an experiment to explore Panache, as I had no idea how it worked. By the end of it, Variel could use Panache with his Rapier, Bow, and Unarmed Strikes. He had Opportune Parry & Riposte, as well as fused Crane Style and Panther Style to have Panther Parry and Crane Riposte... why? Because it sounds similar to the Swashbuckler Deed, so I ran with it.

Traits should not be a burden or obligation. They are an opportunity for the willing to spice up there builds.

[pad300]

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

Traits were intro'd in Ultimate Campaign

Advanced Player's Guide, actually.

I'm thinking traits first showed up (as campaign traits) in the Legacy of Fire AP...