I'm thinking about playing a chosen one paladin and I started to think about my (from lvl 7 onwards) smart familiar skills and abilities.
I would be using a Silvanshee, which of course, on it's bestiary entry has it's own skills but would it gain more skills as I gain levels or when it's intelligence goes up? or does it's intelligence go up at all? I'm actually not sure if the "natural armor, int, special" chart works the same for improved familiars.
Also, do I lose the "special ability" that regular familiars give when it transforms ? do I lose it only when it assume their outsider form and it stays / comes back if it's in animal form ? does it stay on both forms since it gains the "change shape" monster ability so it's technically not a different creature even when it changes from animal to outsider...?
Sorry for the question storm haha but I searched and couldn't find the answers I was looking for.
Thanks in advance :)
Improved Familiar wrote: Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars, with two exceptions: if the creature's type is something other than animal, its type does not change; and improved familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate).
It will gain int, natural armor and special abilities as your level increases, like all other familiars.
It will gain skill points if its intelligence becomes higher than a normal Silvanshee, and it will share the skill ranks you have. Its HD doesn't change and it will not gain levels, so it will not gain skill points from that.
Changing shapes never change your type, and is unrelated to the familiar bonuses. A Silvanshee only gives you the Alertness.
Diego, help me understand. An Imp Familiar begins with a 13 Int; since it has a +1 bonus from that ability, it can speak Common and Infernal and has 21 skill ranks spread evenly between 7 skills in its stat block. When it becomes available as an Improved Familiar, the first level it is an option at is level 7. Looking at the chart for Familiars, the Int score for a 7th level Familiar is a 9.
Does this mean that, when an Imp becomes an improved familiar, the Imp loses one language and three skill ranks of its own, before looking over ranks from it's controller it can use? That in turn means that, despite the fluff saying that Imps and Consular Imps being rare gifts to their most favored mortal minions, Devils are actually giving heir minions inferior creatures as familiars compared to what they might actually be able to summon and bind for themselves.
Despite my own personal interpretation of the fluff however, I don't see any RAW that contradicts you Diego so please just confirm that, for high intelligence Improved Familiars there would need to be a rebuild to the lower intelligence score of a standard Familiar. Thanks!
Narxzul wrote: I'm thinking about playing a chosen one paladin and I started to think about my (from lvl 7 onwards) smart familiar skills and abilities.
I would be using a Silvanshee, which of course, on it's bestiary entry has it's own skills but would it gain more skills as I gain levels or when it's intelligence goes up? or does it's intelligence go up at all? I'm actually not sure if the "natural armor, int, special" chart works the same for improved familiars.
Also, do I lose the "special ability" that regular familiars give when it transforms ? do I lose it only when it assume their outsider form and it stays / comes back if it's in animal form ? does it stay on both forms since it gains the "change shape" monster ability so it's technically not a different creature even when it changes from animal to outsider...?
Sorry for the question storm haha but I searched and couldn't find the answers I was looking for.
Thanks in advance :)
so the class you are talking about is a Paladin archetype Pal - Chosen One
Paladin level-> Wizard level on the Familiar chart, so it will advance as that in a cumulative manner. If its INT is higher than the chart, it keeps its original higher score.
Once it "evolves" the original form is " The familiar gains the change shape universal monster ability if it doesn’t already have it, which it can use at will to transform into its original form or back to its true form." mainly a cosmetic thing as it is a transformation(polymorph), see beast shape 1.
Emmissary description. The familiar only loses Deliver Touch Spells, which could hurt but as a Pal isn't a caster it has far less impact.
one question I have is the emissary archetype added to the familiar. It doesn't seem to go away when you get the improved familiar which is based on the patron rather than the Paladin. The text isn't clear and the patron part would reinforce the idea of the archtype carrying forward. Secondly the familiar uses two uses of the pal LoH for every one it does - NOT GOOD. While the familiar is handy, it is far squishier than the Paladin thus a liability in combat or dying from collateral damage.
Advice: I'm going to say play a regular young paladin and get a Silvanshee cohort or use Familiar Bond feat{which will stack with Wizard} to get a Familiar. Companion Figurine feat is another way to gain a silvanshee IF you can find said figurine and have the cash to buy it.
You could Dip into Wiz 1 plus Improved Familiar feat (class level will be THE issue if you don't have Familiar Bond feat so you'll need a waiver from your GM for the silvanshee) for all the goodness you want plus item activation without UMD. IF you do Diviner, you can act in a surprise round and can give a minor insight bonus... Shaman is another option.
Giving your Silvanshee a few first level wands and an aegis of recovery is going to be the most effective thing you can do.
Mark Hoover 330 wrote: Diego, help me understand. An Imp Familiar begins with a 13 Int; since it has a +1 bonus from that ability, it can speak Common and Infernal and has 21 skill ranks spread evenly between 7 skills in its stat block. When it becomes available as an Improved Familiar, the first level it is an option at is level 7. Looking at the chart for Familiars, the Int score for a 7th level Familiar is a 9.
Does this mean that, when an Imp becomes an improved familiar, the Imp loses one language and three skill ranks of its own, before looking over ranks from it's controller it can use? That in turn means that, despite the fluff saying that Imps and Consular Imps being rare gifts to their most favored mortal minions, Devils are actually giving heir minions inferior creatures as familiars compared to what they might actually be able to summon and bind for themselves.
Despite my own personal interpretation of the fluff however, I don't see any RAW that contradicts you Diego so please just confirm that, for high intelligence Improved Familiars there would need to be a rebuild to the lower intelligence score of a standard Familiar. Thanks!
While there is no official rule about that, the normal interpretation is that the familiar keep the higher value between the kind of creature it is and what being a familiar gives it.
So the imp unmodified intelligence will stay 13 from when the wizard gets it at level 7 until the wizard reach level 17. At that point the imp intelligence increase to 14.
The Silvanshee starts with an intelligence of 10, so it will increase it when the paladin reach an equvalent wizard level of 11.
Diego Rossi wrote:
It will gain int, natural armor and special abilities as your level increases, like all other familiars.
It will gain skill points if its intelligence becomes higher than a normal Silvanshee, and it will share the skill ranks you have. Its HD doesn't change and it will not gain levels, so it will not gain skill points from that.
Changing shapes never change your type, and is unrelated to the familiar bonuses. A Silvanshee only gives you the Alertness.
Divine Emissary (Ex)
At 1st level, a chosen one gains an emissary familiar, treating her paladin level as her wizard level for the purpose of this ability.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I don't get Alertness, instead I get the things from this archetype https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-arch etypes/emissary-familiar-archetype/
True Form (Ex)
At 7th level, a chosen one’s familiar reveals its true form, transforming into an outsider improved familiar that matches the chosen one’s patron’s alignment (typically an arbiter, a cassisian, a harbinger, or a silvanshee, but potentially any lawful neutral, lawful good, or neutral good outsider familiar depending on the patron). The familiar gains the change shape universal monster ability if it doesn’t already have it, which it can use at will to transform into its original form or back to its true form.
Sorry I didn't get that last part At lvl 7 it stops being an animal entirely so I don't get, say +1 natural armor, if it was an armadillo before that, even if it changes back to a regular animal ?
Azothath wrote:
so the class you are talking about is a Paladin archetype Pal - Chosen One
Paladin level-> Wizard level on the Familiar chart, so it will advance as that in a cumulative manner. If its INT is higher than the chart, it keeps its original higher score.
Once it "evolves" the original form is " The familiar gains the change shape universal monster ability if it doesn’t already have it, which it can use at will to transform into its original form or back to its true form." mainly a cosmetic thing as it is a transformation(polymorph), see beast shape 1.
Emmissary description. The familiar only loses Deliver Touch Spells, which could hurt but as a Pal isn't a caster it has far...
Oh yeah, I'm fully aware it's pretty suboptimal to trade a divine bond weapon or mount for a familiar being a paladin, I just like it better from a roleplay pov and I wanted to go for a more "support" style paladin and using the flying cat to heal while I'm doing something else seemed like a fun option.
I could also go regular paladin (or another archetype) and use a mount, I would like it to be a flying mount (pretty sure you can't do that ?) or one that can help in combat not just for mounting but charging someone with a lance or something + spirited charge sounds fun too.
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Quote: True Form (Ex)
At 7th level, a chosen one’s familiar reveals its true form, transforming into an outsider improved familiar that matches the chosen one’s patron’s alignment (typically an arbiter, a cassisian, a harbinger, or a silvanshee, but potentially any lawful neutral, lawful good, or neutral good outsider familiar depending on the patron). The familiar gains the change shape universal monster ability if it doesn’t already have it, which it can use at will to transform into its original form or back to its true form.
It not an armadillo anymore. It is an outsider and an improved familiar.
You have a list of creatures it can be, " arbiter, a cassisian, a harbinger, or a silvanshee, but potentially any lawful neutral, lawful good, or neutral good outsider familiar depending on the patron" and you get whatever that familiar gives.
I hadn't checked the archetype before, you obviously get guidance. I was speaking of what improved familiars give normally.
Diego Rossi wrote: It not an armadillo anymore. It is an outsider and an improved familiar.
You have a list of creatures it can be, " arbiter, a cassisian, a harbinger, or a silvanshee, but potentially any lawful neutral, lawful good, or neutral good outsider familiar depending on the patron" and you get whatever that familiar gives.
I hadn't checked the archetype before, you obviously get guidance. I was speaking of what improved familiars give normally.
Thanks for the clarification :D
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