Came here looking for a FAQ or errata for the core rule book having to do with Solarian's 5th and 15th level. It makes no sense that Solarian is the ONLY class that has 2 levels that get no additional powers or attributes... Every other class gets Something every level albeit in the Technomancers case they have 4 levels with no class powers but those are the levels they gain an additional spell level so they are still getting something... I don't see how a Solarian would be out of balance with the other classes by getting a solar revelation or small power or a bonus feat on those levels just like Soldiers, operatives, and mechanics get a gear boost, exploit, or trick. Solarian is already a stat hungry class and in the middle as far as damage output and on the low end of versatility.
Came here looking for a FAQ or errata for the core rule book having to do with Solarian's 5th and 15th level. It makes no sense that Solarian is the ONLY class that has 2 levels that get no additional powers or attributes... Every other class gets Something every level albeit in the Technomancers case they have 4 levels with no class powers but those are the levels they gain an additional spell level so they are still getting something... I don't see how a Solarian would be out of balance with the other classes by getting a solar revelation or small power or a bonus feat on those levels just like Soldiers, operatives, and mechanics get a gear boost, exploit, or trick. Solarian is already a stat hungry class and in the middle as far as damage output and on the low end of versatility.
Apparently only the Solar Armor and Sheild type Solarian's benefits at those levels
Your solar armor grants you a +1 enhancement bonus to both your Kinetic Armor Class and your Energy Armor Class. This bonus increases to +2 at 10th level. It is compatible with light armor, but it gives you no benefit if you’re wearing heavy armor or powered armor.
At 5th level, you also gain energy resistance 5 while your solar armor is active. You can choose either cold resistance or fire resistance when you activate the armor, and can switch energy types as a move action. This energy resistance increases by 5 at 10th level and every 5 levels thereafter. CRB pg.101
Your solar shield grants you a +1 shield bonus to AC (see Shields on page 124), and as a move action you can align the shield to grant you greater protection against one opponent you are observing (Core Rulebook 260), which increases your shield bonus to AC to +2 against attacks from that opponent until the beginning of your next turn.
At 5th level and again every 5 levels thereafter, the shield bonus when aligned against one target increases by an additional +1.
COM pg.84
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There is no such errata. (Would have to be errata, not FAQ.
While we're here, though...
in the middle as far as damage output
What? What world is this in?
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There is no such errata. (Would have to be errata, not FAQ.
While we're here, though...
in the middle as far as damage outputWhat? What world is this in?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the solarian just about the pinnacle of damage output?
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No, that's about accurate. Damage focused solarians are walking Delete keys.
While character level 5 includes a feat and a set of attribute boosts, there's nonguarantee that character level 5 is solarian level 5.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the solarian just about the pinnacle of damage output?There is no such errata. (Would have to be errata, not FAQ.
While we're here, though...
in the middle as far as damage outputWhat? What world is this in?
Solarians are no where near the damage out put of an Operative or Mechanic with either Drone or AI at 5th level...and are comparable but on the low end of Soldier and Mind blast Mystic. They just have decent Minimum damage with specialization applying to their solar weapon. And all of those other classes get more than just the normal Character level up feats that every other class gets at 5th and 15th level.
In regards to Super nova getting an additional d6 and the gravity one getting another 5 feet, that also happens every level before and after 5th anyways and solarians on every other level are getting something else along with it so how is 5th and 15th level any different from all other solarians levels.I’m just trying to understand the logic behind the decision to not give them any additional perks on 2 levels... when every other class including the highest Dps classes get a boost a trick or an exploit on top of any other static increases to class features they have already gotten...
What did play testing this class show(I can only assume they had granted powers at 5th and 15th levels) that logically explains how 2 powers spread out made them out of balance with the other classes???
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Solarians are no where near the damage out put of an Operative or Mechanic with either Drone or AI at 5th level...and are comparable but on the low end of Soldier and Mind blast Mystic.
Would you mind showing your math on this? Because unless you're making some unusual build assumptions, that isn't accurate at all. Even at 5th level exactly, which is a high point for operatives in this kind of comparison, most operatives end up with a trick attack that's in the same average damage neighborhood as a weapon solarian making only a single attack. Full attacking definitely beats it out.
Solarian at level 5 is d6+Str+5. Give then a fusion for Cha
So Best stat at 18 and secondary at 16. Crystal is d4.
So single attack is D6+d4+12. So 14-22 damage per attack, giving potential damage output at 28-44
Mechanic. sonic Pistol and a Drone with a Laser rifle. Pistol is D8+2, Rifle is D8+5, so a total of 3d8+12, 15-36. If you go melee, your looking at d6+8 for the mechanic, d10+7 for the drone. 25-48
Operative is sonic pistol at D8+2, trick attack at 3d8. So 6-34.
You prob could get better numbers with feats and more exotic weapons but this was a base look.
I can understand the thing of not unlocking something new at level 5 but they still get something, not as potent as some you might say. Mystics get 1 level 1 spell and a small skill bonus (+1 to 2 skills)
Solarion gets more damage with one ability and more area of effect for another. When you compare directly with a Solider or an Operative, yes it feels like your loosing out since the Operative gets a new toy and improves his basic damage by 2d8.
Slight edit, my math was off and might still be
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I think there's a major flaw in the method here. Your numbers only have the damage range if everything is successful, which isn't the most meaningful evaluation. We need accuracy as part of this.
For the sake of convenience, we could take a look at the combatant arrays for NPC creation, and take a perfectly standard CR 5 combatant. That leaves our solarian aiming at KAC 19 and our operative and mechanic aiming at a lower EAC 17.
For our solarian, if they started with 16 and 14 STR and CHA, we're probably looking at 20 and 16 at level 5. Assuming weapon focus, and adding plasma sheathe and photon mode that weren't in the napkin math, our solarian has got +11 to hit and an average damage per hit of 22.
On a single attack that's 35% miss, 60% hit and 5% crit, so our average damage on a single attack is (0.65+2*(0.05))*22 = 15.4
If our hypothetical solarian full attacks, we're instead looking at 2*0.50*22, or 22 damage average.
Our operative probably has 20 DEX and weapon focus, for a +9 to hit. If we assume they were trying to ramp up their trick attack bonus, we can get a reasonable estimate that they'll want a non-dex based skill, with a +4 bonus. Assuming +3 for class skill+5ranks+3 insight+4 untyped for the non-dex based trick attack skill bonus that many specialization get+3 for a reasonably solid 16 in the relevant secondary stat, we're looking at a +18 on the TA roll, for a 70% success rate. With an effective +2 to hit when the trick attack succeeds, 20 average damage on a successful trick attack and 6.5 average damage if the trick fails but the attack hits, we can do some more napkin math.
0.70(TA success)*0.80(accuracy including crit chance)*20(successful trick average damage)=11.2
0.30(Trick fail percentage)*0.70(accuracy including crit chance when the target isn't flat-footed)*6.5(damage)=1.365
When we add the two pieces together, our average damage for a TA attempt is 12.565
Doing the same sort of thing with a mechanic, assuming a bit more generously that the mechanic is also using a rifle, and that they prioritized DEX over INT and are also at 20 DEX at level 5, a full attack from the mechanic and single attack from the drone would come out to 15.675.
Obviosuly there are a lot more variations, and this is still just simple napkin math.
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And while the Operatives 7th level auto-trick attack helps out, a solarian full attacking with a solar weapon, str, weapon crystal, soulfire fusion, plus plasma sheathe can just erase even boss level enemies. I should know I've had to deal with one lvl 1-12 and another who is at level 10.
Both those parties had/have an operative who was pretty useless damagewise until level 7, and even then, they just weren't in the running for good damage.
I want to say the only real competitor in pure damage output is a melee focused soldier.
While Solarians are fine on damage, they do suffer from a conspicuous lack of new class features at 5 and 15; however, IMO that Technomancers don't get meaningful class features at 9 or 15 (I don't consider +1 to 2 skills a meaningful class feature); Mystic misses out at 5, 8, 14, and 17; Witchwarper has nothing at 15, and weapon/armor mechanics have a few class feature that don't really work without an AI (namely Coordinated Assault, and Control net)
So I feel like its a bigger problem then just Solarian
The way monsters hit and how much damage they do in melee I don’t understand how melee as a PC is ever viable. Especially with solarians that only start off with light armor. My GM doesn’t run Adventure paths he typically makes combats tough and could kill us at almost any point if he really wanted to and didn’t hold back.
Solar flare solarians don’t get strength bonus to damage and even with some feats don’t do great damage. 5th level with Photon mode your looking at d4+1+5. Add another +2 if deadly aim and use a move action if something is within 30ft for Blade in the Night for another +1. So D4+1+5+2+1 min damage of 10 max of 14. With every 3 turns doing a 5d6 +1 supernova if combat allows.
Please explain how having a full base attack is so over powered that it justifies not giving any kind of perk (meaningful or not even a +1 to 2 skills is something) on 5th and or 15th level. Not even saying that many of the options for revelations are great but with losing out on 1 at 5th level it really doesn’t give the room in the build for other revelations that are more niche and not focused on damage like you can with other classes that get so many tricks exploits or gear boosts that they can afford to take something fun or situational.
Getting a level up esp on the Long XP track shouldn’t ever feel bad. Only getting the feat and ability score increases that every other character gets at 5th while every other class gets additional class feature while their static increases from other class features already obtained go up feels way out of balance.
Was there maybe a mistake on the solar flare? Because getting nothing at 5th level but all the sudden at 6th getting the additional d4 to flare additional +1 to photon mode and a revelation feels like a lot and could have been spread out into 5th level. Make the additional d4 for flare happen at 5th level same as when operative dice go up. Or give the revelation at 5th level and let all the static increases from class features already obtained just increase for 6th. It makes more logical sense No???
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The way monsters hit and how much damage they do in melee I don’t understand how melee as a PC is ever viable
I don't understand how you don't understand. I just last week had a level 10 solarian stand toe to toe with a CR 13 combatant and win without support from the rest of the team. BTW, you grab heavy armor prof at level 1 to make up the AC.
Melee as a PC is the ultimate in damage dealing characters. Sure, you'll need hit point healing and a 10 min rest everytime you run into a boss fight, but you'll be the reason you won.
If melee combat isn't viable at the table you play at, I have to wonder if your GM is playing anything like how the rules and encounter guidelines are supposed to work.
Solar flare solarians compare pretty readily to heavy weapon soldiers, but they really pale in comparison (damage wise) to a melee solarian.
In summary, if the solar flare is your reference point, well, I get why you think solarians are underwhelming.
My Solar Flare solarian is a ranged repositionist. Agile Wavelengths lets you control the battlefield by sticking enemies into flanked positions and/or make them provoke attacks of opportunity.
And yes, you can also shoot competitively with other ranged attackers. Solar Flare wasn't meant to be competitive with melee solarians, though, because the risk/reward isn't the same. A melee solarian is taking damage while a solar flarian is behind a chest-high wall taking potshots from cover.
At 5th level the mystic gets.. channel skill +2 and a new first level spell. Thats at least as little as the solarion gets. Just because it's not on the chart doesn't make it real. So its not some unique circumstance that MUST be wrong.
5th is also the level where all characters get their +2 to four attribute points, which for a mad mad mad class like the mystic who needs multiple stats is a HUGE boost. Starting with an 18 is pretty hard as a solarion, chances are good your strength and charisma are both going up by 2. Getting 2 to hit and 1 to damage is a pretty good level.
Solar Armor gains Energy Resistance at 5th and an increase to it at 15th, Solar Shield gains an additional +1 to their active AC at both levels.
Solar/Lunar Weapon/Flare don't get anything at 5th but DO get a damage increase in addition to the revelation at 6th. They get another damage increase at 15th. While I'm firmly of the design philosophy that a character should have a new mechanical option at just about every level and not just math tweaks, I wouldn't call what they do get nothing.
I get that ability score increases at 5th level is huge. What I don’t get is... Every other class at 5th level gets something else on top of it. And at 6th level Solarians get a revelation and All the static increases which after only getting a feat and ability score increase feels lopsided esp for 5th when CR5 Monsters get quite bump in stats. It seems flawed in comparison to every other classes structured additional class features. There had to be some kind of play tested feedback that supported the decision to hold back an additional perk other than they just couldn’t think of a small increase that fit thematically.
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Every other class at 5th level gets something else on top of it.
No. The mystic gets a +2 to their channel Skill. While my skill monkey mystic is snoopy dancing over that level, to most mystics that's far less effect than the solarion armor and solar shield increases.
Getting something at every level is a goal, not a rule.
The solarion as a class is doing just fine. (The soulfire crystal helped a lot for the lower levels)
This is a reason to shrug at best.