one day I was playing with my friends and I had my arcanist fighting some orcs In Cenotaph when I see that our fighter fall down by the effect of magic I decide to use transformation and fight with his weapon (a 2-handed sword). During the fight I decide to use my dimensional slide, spell tinkerer and my alter enhancements.
However, one of the players who is also GM in other stories pointed out that it was not possible to use these effects because they were magical and the GM thought about it for about 20 or 30 min since it did not explain the Spell in this type of case.
I wonder can I use exploits while I am under transform effects?
|
You become a fighting machine—stronger, tougher, faster, and more skilled in combat. Your mindset changes so that you relish combat and you can't cast spells, even from magic items.
You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus to AC, a +5 competence bonus on Fortitude saves, and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. Your base attack bonus equals your character level (which may give you multiple attacks).
You lose your spellcasting ability, including your ability to use spell activation or spell completion magic items, just as if the spells were no longer on your class list.
"Spellcasting ability" refers to the casting ability granted by the Spells class feature. All those arcanist exploits are Supernatural (Su) abilities. Supernatural abilities are different from spells. You can't cast spells but you can use the exploits.
|
"Spellcasting ability" refers to the casting ability granted by the Spells class feature. All those arcanist exploits are Supernatural (Su) abilities. Supernatural abilities are different from spells. You can't cast spells but you can use the exploits.You become a fighting machine—stronger, tougher, faster, and more skilled in combat. Your mindset changes so that you relish combat and you can't cast spells, even from magic items.
You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus to AC, a +5 competence bonus on Fortitude saves, and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. Your base attack bonus equals your character level (which may give you multiple attacks).
You lose your spellcasting ability, including your ability to use spell activation or spell completion magic items, just as if the spells were no longer on your class list.
"Sure", because the text of the spell was meant to address a class that was made several years later ...
RAW addresses only what existed when the spell was cast, but Arcanist exploits are fueled by his Arcane Reservoir and that is magical energy you get when preparing your spells. It is questionable to treat it as it wasn't linked to the arcanist spellcasting ability, as Transmutation not only blocks spell use, but it blocks the use of magical devices that depend on the caster's knowledge, not on its available spells.
Sadly, the FAQs on the ACG content are very few when compared with earlier books. A classic effect of being produced near the end of the life of a version of the game.
To reply to Zepheri question, the spirit of Transformation is that you lose your magical abilities related to the class, so, RAI, you should be unable to use them. At the same time, the current version of Transformation is so bad that it is almost useless if compared to its level. At the level where you get it, you will already have several of the enhancement bonuses and natural armor bonuses, so you get relatively little benefit from that. The real benefit is the BAB increase, but it is compensated by you the loss of spellcasting abilities and the need to fight like a martial without the appropriate feats.
So, the only realistic answer is "Ask your GM and discuss it, you need to reach an agreement with him on how it should work."
"Spellcasting ability" refers to the casting ability granted by the Spells class feature. All those arcanist exploits are Supernatural (Su) abilities. Supernatural abilities are different from spells. You can't cast spells but you can use the exploits.You become a fighting machine—stronger, tougher, faster, and more skilled in combat. Your mindset changes so that you relish combat and you can't cast spells, even from magic items.
You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus to AC, a +5 competence bonus on Fortitude saves, and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. Your base attack bonus equals your character level (which may give you multiple attacks).
You lose your spellcasting ability, including your ability to use spell activation or spell completion magic items, just as if the spells were no longer on your class list.
"Sure", because the text of the spell was meant to address a class that was made several years later ...
RAW addresses only what existed when the spell was cast, but Arcanist exploits are fueled by his Arcane Reservoir and that is magical energy you get when preparing your spells. It is questionable to treat it as it wasn't linked to the arcanist spellcasting ability, as Transmutation not only blocks spell use, but it blocks the use of magical devices that depend on the caster's knowledge, not on its available spells.
Sadly, the FAQs on the ACG content are very few when compared with earlier books. A classic effect of being produced near the end of the life of a version of the game.
To reply to Zepheri question, the spirit of Transformation is that you lose your magical abilities related to the class, so, RAI, you should be unable to use them. At the same time, the current version of Transformation is so bad that it is almost useless if compared to its level. At the level where you get it, you will already have several of the...
The spirit of Transformation was that you can't cast spells, nor use spell trigger/spell completion items. You don't lose every supernatural or magical ability tied to your class.
For example, do Sorcerers lose their Bloodline abilities when Transformation is cast? If so, what happens when Level 20 Orc Bloodline Sorcerers use their capstone ability to use Transformation as a spell-like ability?
By your logic, said Sorcerer would lose all magical abilities related to their class, therefore lose their bloodline which grants them the spell. It's clear to me that this was never the intention of the spell Transformation. You only lose the ability to cast spells, that's it.
To go one step further, look at Barbarians. Their "Rage" mechanic also gives them physical boosts at the cost of loosing the ability to cast spells. However, they explicitly do not lose access to supernatural abilities, and indeed many of their Rage Powers are supernatural in nature. It is my belief that Transformation behaves much the same way.
|
|
Arcane Reservoir is recharged when preparing spells.
Arcane bloodline powers aren't recharged by preparing spells, with the exception of those that are spell know.
So, what are you comparing?
Barbarian Rage:
While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
Barbarians don't lose "the ability to cast spells", they lose the ability to use "any ability that requires patience or concentration". And that would stop plenty of supernatural abilities.
Arcane Reservoir is recharged when preparing spells.
When your arcane reservoir is recharged has absolutely no impact on the rules for how transformation works and what it blocks access to. It prevents spellcasting and use of spell trigger/completion magic items. It does not block access to supernatural abilities, and by raw it doesn’t even block access to spell-like abilities... I believe there is however an FAQ out there that has the implication of blocking access to spell-like, but nothing in the rules or FAQs cause it to prevent access to supernatural abilities. Most arcane exploits are supernatural as is your arcane reservoir.
You are comparing apples to oranges here, and coming to a conclusion that has absolutely zero support in the rules.
Arcane exploits work just fine while under the effects of transformation so long as the exploit in question does not require casting of a spell or expenditure of a spell slot
|
|
I don't understand the hostility in this thread but I just want to point out like others have, that all of these you listed are Supernatural Abilities and are not impacted or stopped by Transformation.
It works and I'm pretty sure that it's probably SUPPOSED to work, after all, they threw out the book when it came to any semblance of niche protection or class balance when they printed the Arcanist as they can gain pretty much any casting class feature in the game in one way or another at the cost of one or two extra feats slotted into Extra Arcane Exploit + a well-chosen archetype.
Transformation is intended to turn the caster into a pure martial, but allows supernaturla abilities (and even SLAs, as written). In Pathfinder, it's totally normal for a pure martial to use magical abilities.
...
Yeah, I don't see the issue. I don't see any indication for or even reason why this shouldn't be working as intended. What the spell was designed to do for 3.5 is utterly irrelevant, as Pathfinder is a seperate game.
Let's look at the Barbarian, as class not only with options to protect from and fight against spellcasters (Superstition/Witch Hunter), but whichs main class feature prevents casting spells and activating wands because it puts the user in a fighting-focussed mindset, just like Transformation does. Does Rage prevent supernatural abilities? No it doesn't, and indeed, there're more supernatural than exceptional Rage Powers.
Transformation makes absolutely no mention of removing the caster's magical abilities. It says the caster's mindset changes. So if a GM wants to disallow SLAs because like spells they require concentration, which mandates a certain mindset, that's totally fine and might indeed be the intention. But disallowing supernatural abilities, which aren't disabled by anything short of an Antimagic Zone, is not something that can be justified by referring to author intend.
I think the point of the transformation spell was to turn you into a fighter, which normally can't use magic.
In Pathfinder, Fighters do have supernatural abilities. Not by default, sure, but Fighters with supernatural class features where a thing long before the Arcanist saw the light of day. And nowadays are actually the norm.