Hi everyone!
One of my players is playing a rogue and from time to time it happens that he goes behind a wall and ends the turn there. When he start his new turn is he automatically hidden and therefore can he use the Sneak Action to consider an enemy flat-footed ?
In other words: if no one can see me with a precise sense..am I hidden?
In most circumstances, you can sense creatures without difficulty and target them normally. Creatures in this state are observed. Observing requires a precise sense, which for most creatures means sight[...]. If you can’t observe the creature, it’s either hidden, undetected, or unnoticed, and you’ll need to factor in the targeting restrictions.
Thank in advance for you answers!
Marco
If there's a wall wall between you and them, and their only precise sense is sight, then yes you're Hidden... but you also have a wall stopping you from attacking them. If you Stride out from behind a wall to attack, you aren't Hidden anymore by the time you attack without some feat or special ability.
If you just step behind cover, not something like a whole wall in the way, that doesn't make you Hidden in the first place without Hiding.
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If they go behind a wall that grants total cover, this is fine, but it has to be TOTAL cover not just greater cover. This means when you draw a line between the two squares, the square the PC is in needs to be completely blocked from the enemy square. If even 10% of it is visible, that is only Greater Cover.
Also keep in mind if they end their sneak action outside cover/concealment they become detected unless they have some ability that changes that.
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Yep, basically, if you don't have a clear line of sight and the creature you're visually obscured from doesn't have another precise sense besides vision, then you aren't observed by them, and considering that you're not actively hiding you won't be undetected, so hidden is the correct state. However, you also aren't going to have a clear line of sight for your attack. To get an attack off while hidden you're going to want to be behind cover or be concealed, but if you were to walk to a location where you're simply behind cover or concealed then you wouldn't be hidden anymore.
So, if they're truly completely behind a wall, then yes, that player would be hidden and wouldn't need to take the hide action. However, to successfully target the enemy they're hidden from in this way they'd need to take a sneak action and succeed on the secret stealth check to remain hidden or become undetected while moving from their current position to a position they can attack from (most likely the edge of said wall, where they would be considered to have cover). Though, it's worth noting that you get a bonus to the stealth roll if you're behind cover or greater cover for the duration of the movement, not to mention you don't need to start off with a hide check before sneaking, so there's definitely still a benefit in this strategy.
So is totally fine that if you end one of your action behind a wall or corner you become hidden (or undetected) automatically.
Therefore you can use in your next action the Sneak action to move to another place or return in combat to attack the enemy while he is flat-footed.
Cool.
Thank you everyone!
@shroudb That's not antithetical to what he said though...
So, yeah, you got that right O'Mouza. That's how complete cover fits into the stealth rules if you start your turn behind it. I'm going to assume you got the rest down already.
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Right. To clarify, without some special ability:
Case 1: Reggie the Rogue is behind a wall, and is Hidden to Snarlax the Unspeakable. Reggie Sneaks out from behind the wall into the room where Snarlax is and tries to stab Snarlax. Unfortunately for Reggie, at the end of his Sneak action he had neither cover nor concealment for Snarlax, so he is Observed as he Skyrim-crouches and Snarlax is not flat-footed.
Case 2: Reggie the Rogue is behind a wall, and is Hidden to Snarlax the Unspeakable. Reggie Sneaks out from behind the wall into the room where Snarlax is, and end his sneak action up against a piller, positioned so that he has cover. He succeeded at his attempt to Sneak, so he is Undetected by Snarlax, and uses the opportunity to throw a dagger at his flat-footed target, and becomes Observed afterward.
Hammerjack is correct, and that's why the rogue class has other methods of getting someone to be able to be sneak attacked than simply moving out of cover.
If you make it to high enough level, Legendary Sneak skill feat lets Reggie simply walk out and ignore the need for cover or concealment and maintain being hidden.
Twin feint being a level 1, unrestricted access class feat that will make an enemy flat-footed for your second attack. It only requires you to be wielding two weapons.
And at level 9 you get debilitating strike and can take Precise Debilitations (if a Theif racket) and after your first sneak attack keep them successfully flat-footed against you.