Hello,
I am playing a witch on Arcana tradition with an owl as a familiar.
My witch got to level 3 and can now cast the spell Enlarge.
As my familiar should be qualifying as a "willing creature" I can cast the spell on it.
So here are the questions with the now Large size familiar owl:
- Can my normal sized witch ride the owl for the duration of the spell ?
- Can the Owl threaten an ennemy regarding the flanking rules ?
- Can my witch order the owl to attack as part of the minion commanding action ?
I've searched a bit and it appears that the spirit of the rules for familiars revolve around boosting the master whit no ability to attack where animal companions are the ones suited for combat but this is not really clear as justification about this comes mostly from the size of the familiar.
So what prevents a large sized familiar from attacking apart that it would probably die due to poor AC and low HP ?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Familiar rules.
"It can't make Strikes, but it can use trained skill actions for skills for which it adds your spellcasting ability modifier. If it attempts an attack roll or other skill check, it uses your level as its modifier."
Familiars can't use strikes period. It doesn't matter what spells you cast on them, they can never Strike. The line about Attacks are for things like Escaping a grab or something.
Ok, no strikes, whatever the size. Doesn't make that much sense but anyway... thanks for the clear answer :)
What about flanking and riding ?
Flanking requires that you be wielding a melee weapon or able to make an unarmed attack. So you would have to be houseruling some kind of strike onto the enlarged familiar for them to qualify.
Ok, no strikes, whatever the size. Doesn't make that much sense but anyway... thanks for the clear answer :)
What about flanking and riding ?
Look at sprites for ridable familiars.
As to flanking... Technically, yes they could. Flanking requires you "be wielding melee weapons or be able to make an unarmed attack" and wielding says "You're wielding an item any time you're holding it in the number of hands needed to use it effectively. When wielding an item, you're not just carrying it around—you're ready to use it." So a familiar could wield a weapon even if they can't strike with it. For instance, they COULD use that weapon to trip, disarm, shove, grapple, ect as those aren't Strikes. They WOULD suck at it, but skill rolls using a weapon are allowed.
Friends of mine are stating that being able to ride a flying mount is somewhat unballanced as dealing with flying ennemies is hard on early levels.
5 minutes is long. My character could be riding the owl and spamming rays of frost while being out of range most of the time, so I can see their point here.
Still... being able to do just that is awesome and I can't wait to actually do it :p
***
Thanks for the answer on the flanking question. What you say here is that with the familiar manipulation ability, a weapon at hand, AND the ability to reach an adjacent tile are enough to be able to flank. Correct ?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Friends of mine are stating that being able to ride a flying mount is somewhat unballanced as dealing with flying ennemies is hard on early levels.
As a minion you have to spend an action to command the minion and the minion MUST spend an action every round to fly. You also present a VERY good target for ranged attacks and your familiar an even getter one.
5 minutes is long. My character could be riding the owl and spamming rays of frost while being out of range most of the time, so I can see their point here.
One good hit on the familiar and you're both falling, knocked prone and taking extra damage...
Still... being able to do just that is awesome and I can't wait to actually do it :p
It's fun until it's not. ;)
Thanks for the answer on the flanking question. What you say here is that with the familiar manipulation ability, a weapon at hand, AND the ability to reach an adjacent tile are enough to be able to flank. Correct ?
Yes. You'd have to buy a tiny reach weapon [doesn't matter which], take Manual Dexterity and move them there. Familiars aren't very combat able so expect to lose a familiar on a regular basis with this tactic. It has your base AC and saves [no bonuses from spells, item, ect] and 5 hp/level so it can get curb stomped in a hit or 2. For instance a crit from a 1 level Orc Brute with a pick does 3d10+6 vs your familiars 5/level hp so he might feel it's worth an attack or 2 to get rid of the flanker.
I guess I approach this a bit different. Would you throw your spellbook into combat if it could provide a flank? Of course not. Its too valuable. I would apply the same logic to my witch putting my familiar in harms's way. YMMV
Well, your spellbook doesn't come back for free when you do your daily prep for the day so it's not equivalent IMO. I'd be more bummed to lose out on my master abilities like my free cantrip and regaining a focus point. ;)
Just a suggestion, you don’t need to quote the entire text and especially not when you are replying immediately after the person you are replying to. It unnecessarily clutters the boards. Just my personal opinion.
I do it as I'm replying this way as it makes sure its known what I'm replying to as I'm never sure by the time I hit submit that the reply is actually immediately after. Far too many times either I or someone else has just posted without the quote and made it darn confusing as it makes it seem the reply is to the wrong person. If quoting that makes it look a bit more cluttered, it's a small price to pay for making it clear who the post is replying to.
PS: another reason is that the other person can edit or delete their post which can lead to confusion to without the quote.
As to not quoting the whole text I regularly cut out sentences and paragraphs to reply to. In this case, it didn't seem worth the effort to edit the quote down as it wasn't long.
The owl lacks the mount trait. So yes you can ride it this way, however, it would lose its ability to fly.
Source Core Rulebook pg. 214 2.0
You or an ally can ride your animal companion as long as it is at least one size larger than the rider. If it is carrying a rider, the animal companion can use only its land Speed, and it can’t move and Support you on the same turn. However, if your companion has the mount special ability, it’s especially suited for riding and ignores both of these restrictions.Yes its animal companion not familiar but it's not a hard stretch to assume RAI would apply since corgi mount has the restriction on non land speeds.
Familiars don't use Mount. Look at the Corgi Mount feat: they had to spell out that "it can never gain a familiar ability that grants it any Speeds other than a land Speed". So it's true the RAI seems to be against permanent mount flight. Temp flight not so much as there are spells that already do that. Using a enlarge and taking actions to mount and command a LARGE familiar around for 5 min seems less an exploit to sidestep RAI and more a quick way to murder a familiar...
I disagree. Enlarge as a 2nd level spell and flight plus improved flight on your familiar for 80 feet of flight for 1 action(2 actions to move 40 from command) versus a 4th lvl fly spell and only 20 feet of movement per action would be huge difference.
It's 1 action to command every round, 1 action to mount the familiar, and 2 actions for the spell. So you can't do anything the first turn and have 1/3rd the actions every round after. I'm not sure what you mean by improved flight: Flier is a fly Speed of 25 feet and Fast Movement Increase one of the familiar’s Speeds from 25 feet to 40 feet.
And yes I agree it is an easy way to get your familiar killed but with the ability to minimize attacks against you since youre flying and other abilities like lifelink that can be mitigated.
So you're casting 2 spells for this to work? Sure, but it's looking even worse vs that fly. You also have to remember that familiars don't have stat bonuses and scores: what they can carry is 100% up to the DM since you need a STR score/bonus to figure that out. So a Dm can always say it can't carry the caster or that it's encumbered [clumsy 1 and take a 10-foot penalty to all your Speeds].
Not saying its overpowered but could be exploited. Being able to balance encounters around fly at 3rd lvl would be significantly more problematic than at 7th lvl but its doable.
I think anything that can be exploited can easily be countered by the DM.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Would you throw your spellbook into combat if it could provide a flank? Of course not. Its too valuable. I would apply the same logic to my witch putting my familiar in harms's way.
odd, this is how I’ve been playing my witch:
Good night, familiar. Good work. Sleep well. ::splorch:: I'll jus remake you in the morning.
I have a few variations; I jus grab the one I want on any given adventuring day