Contributor
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If the Vermlek abandons the centaur's body should we revert to using the standard stat block for a vermlek from AP#151 or keeping using the one in the scenario less the things it can no longer do (hoof Strike, and trample)?
I think you should use a standard vermlek. Sorry that I did not think to include it, but in my playtests the Vermlek centaur did not live long enough to abandon the body!
And yes, go with Slowed 1 instead of Staggered. I thought I fixed it in my turnover, but I might have missed it. Thanks for the questions.
Hmm
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Contributor
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When Urwal gives the PCs some gear, one of the items is "tackle." I cannot find a listing for that anywhere. What is that supposed to be?
A word must have been dropped. It's Fishing Tackle.
Sorry for the typos and confusion.
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Contributor
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The treasure bundle section seems to be completely wrong.
There are only 9 boxes and the text only provides for 8. Jam Session has two boxes but the text provides only one.
I really don't understand how this sort of thing goes to print.
In my turnover there were 3 bundles in the optional fight with the dragon. I think that changed during editing and development to 2 treasure bundles for the optional fight, and they upped Jam Session to 2. Looking at it, it's a good change, making it far less punitive for missing that final fight.
Please treat the missing treasure bundle as Urwal's supplies that are given to the players. It was my intent that be one of the treasure bundles, and it accounts for your missing box.
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I have to admit that my [very] initial impression of this scenario was negative, but after reading it in detail and thoroughly prepping it, I think it is a very good scenario with some interesting narrative ideas that makes up for the rail-roady nature. I think I would have liked a more impactful mechanic for when Urwal is wandering during combat encounters, but I guess you can do that by giving the impression of danger that forces the PCs to waste actions to coral him. This kind of reminds me of Mr Magoo wandering through a construction site. I look forward to seeing how it runs in practice. After PaizoCon I should have plenty of real data to do a proper review.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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less punitiveOkay, so the intention is that if they let the dragon die, they will lose two bundles as a form of punishment. I wasn't sure if that was the idea.
Thanks for the feedback, HMM
Not *quite* correct.
The target number of treasuries bundles for a character to maintain the proper wealth by level (including starting consumables) is 8.
Not gaining the last two consumables is not being "punished". Gaining the last 2 consumables is being rewarded for going above and beyond your obligations (Or sometimes for having good luck, or the correct skill.) Just like the extra 2 rep with verdant wheel is a *reward*.
(Given that characters can earn 11 TB per scenario (with dayjobs) and that is *before* faction rewards... pfs2 is a seriously Monty Haul system...)
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If the Vermlek abandons the centaur's body should we revert to using the standard stat block for a vermlek from AP#151 or keeping using the one in the scenario less the things it can no longer do (hoof Strike, and trample)?I think you should use a standard vermlek. Sorry that I did not think to include it, but in my playtests the Vermlek centaur did not live long enough to abandon the body!
And yes, go with Slowed 1 instead of Staggered. I thought I fixed it in my turnover, but I might have missed it. Thanks for the questions.
Hmm
The scenario has all the vermeck stat in the monster block.
Don't forget that it cannot use it's bite without abandoning the centaur.
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The vermlek’s stats in the scenario are better than the stats in the AP mod even after it abandons the centaur body.
EDIT—It’s attack modifiers are 2 higher, plus it’s AC is +4, spell DC +1, four boosted ability scores, and 10 more HP. All for a level +1 adj.
I was just wondering if it was supposed to be a variant and use those stats after it leaves the centaur, or revert to the standard version. I would expect the former, but the author says the latter. It’s something that could/should be mentioned in the scenario.
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I have to admit that my [very] initial impression of this scenario was negative, but after reading it in detail and thoroughly prepping it, I think it is a very good scenario with some interesting narrative ideas that makes up for the rail-roady nature. I think I would have liked a more impactful mechanic for when Urwal is wandering during combat encounters, but I guess you can do that by giving the impression of danger that forces the PCs to waste actions to coral him. This kind of reminds me of Mr Magoo wandering through a construction site. I look forward to seeing how it runs in practice. After PaizoCon I should have plenty of real data to do a proper review.
Played this once, GMed it twice. Only once did they not waste actions to coral Urwal. I think having to only corral him one fight was good. It would have gotten tedious after that.
In one case they just tied him off to the Animal Trainers bear and told it to sit. Took an AC out of the fight.
A couple problems with the spider traps. They list AC and saves, but not hp and hardness.
Also, they "lift the target off the ground" but don't say how high.
Also, I have been referring to them as "snares" as there is no need to throw around words that are potentially triggering or painful. (There have been some recent deaths in nearby areas in the last couple years...)
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Amusingly one of the PCs was trying to decide whether to spend an action to pull a reach weapon to deal with the ogre spider 10 feet up the tree (after taking 2 moves to reach it, or continue past it to set up flank on the one on the ground beyond it. When he stepped in the web snare and was hoisted into the air.
I ruled that it lifted him 5 feat, putting the spider into reach.
Problem Solved.
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Are you referring to where to apply the hazard? The map defines where the flames are and they don't spread. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your question.
The "overlay" just seems to be similar to how the Shadow Plane exists superimposed over the prime. In this case, the PCs have sort of slipped to the other plane and need to resolve the hazard to return fully to the prime. At least that's how I think of it.
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Contributor
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The vermlek’s stats in the scenario are better than the stats in the AP mod even after it abandons the centaur body.
EDIT—It’s attack modifiers are 2 higher, plus it’s AC is +4, spell DC +1, four boosted ability scores, and 10 more HP. All for a level +1 adj.
I was just wondering if it was supposed to be a variant and use those stats after it leaves the centaur, or revert to the standard version. I would expect the former, but the author says the latter. It’s something that could/should be mentioned in the scenario.
The author thinks she made a mistake with her previous comment. Go with the stats in the monster block, since there are vermlek stats there.
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Contributor
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The "overlay" just seems to be similar to how the Shadow Plane exists superimposed over the prime. In this case, the PCs have sort of slipped to the other plane and need to resolve the hazard to return fully to the prime. At least that's how I think of it.
Yes! The plane of Verakhivan is overlaying the Iobarian forest. In order to return home, the PCs need to resolve the hazard (most likely method: killing the centaur and his allies.)
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I think this is an example of an ongoing problem that Paizo occasionally has with its publications—that being compound sentences with a singular occurrence of a word or phase leaving the reader to figure out if it only refers to the most recent part of the sentence, or the whole thing. Their interest in wanting the book to be a "nicer read" as opposed to a more technical text sometimes complicates what the RAI.
Meaning when a sentence is
"A and B affected by C",
does that mean
"A (full stop) and B affected by C"
or does it mean
"A affected by C and B affected by C."
IIRC (I do not claim to be a professionally trained writer) strict grammatical reading would support the former, but we know that the designers often mean the latter and are just trying to make it read better leaving us to figure out what they meant.
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Using the image in the scenario is it possible for the vermlek to partially burst out of the body, revealing itself, but allowing it to use its bite attack? Or is it an all or nothing thing? I would think the latter, but just wondering.
Also, I wish there was a full and independent image of the vermlek that we could use. It is clearly redesigned from its previous incarnation in 1E and the new imagery looks like it should be a small creature akin to a big ball of ribbon. Its just a bit challenging envisioning what it looks like itself.
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To simulate Pumkinhead Jackpot's forward momentum, should we have the PCs roll for initiative immediately as they approach each of the obstacles? If so, what modifier (or static result) should we use for Jackpot? If not, how long is it reasonable to let the player's discuss their options before Jackpot runs towards the obstacle? Or is this entirely up to GM fiat since it is not described?
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If a character catches slime rot and it is four (five?) days back to the Pathfinder camp, should we account for them advancing through the disease if they do not have a way to resolve it? Or can Urwal or Jadirahx cure it? Or should we just hand-waive it? Or can they get back quicker because they aren't being slowed by Urwal's trance? If so, is it roughly half the return time?
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Surprised this hasn't been asked here yet, guess all the GM's here may have just assumed what the answer was and taken it for granted.
On Page 26, for the High Tier Ritual, the Creatures Disgorged by Jadirahx table seems to be copy pasted from low tier, as it still mentions Slime Molds without including the stat block for them at High Tier, and without listing the Blood Oozes anywhere. I'm assuming the idea is that the Blood Oozes spawn when the Slime Molds would, and that Insidious Forest Rots are being used over the basic Forest Rots, but figured I'd confirm it here in either case.
About to be running it in a few hours for what may be a group of 4 Level 6 characters with no in-combat healer so it should be exciting to see how this goes. Not saying the Ritual Fight may end in a TPK, as I've seen crazy rolls before, but not sure if I have high hopes for it. (If no one misses, the party comp will be Sorcerer, Rogue, Barbarian, and Monk)
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That final encounter is a rare kick in the ass. Ran it at 25 challenge points last night and had I not allowed some "creative" hero point usage, it would have been a TPK in a rout and that was with a melee monk, fighter, barbarian, two melee rogues and a wizard. Fully four of the six characters were spec'd with Battle Medicine. Additionally they ran through 15+ healing potions. Things were exacerbated when they failed 90%+ of the saves vs persistent bleed and the enemies were more than 50% effective with their 2nd attacks. I had to limit the dragon rot's breath weapon to one use or it would have certainly TPK'd the party. Its a good thing the tactics hold the Siphon Vitality until they are less than half HP, or that would have also led to a TPK.
I know that Urwal tries to impress upon the PCs the danger of the ritual, but IMO, it reads more like a challenge to the players. Knowing I am scheduled to run this four more times in the near future, I will be REALLY impressing upon the players that choosing the ritual is an extreme encounter...no really, I'm not kidding! The risk of PC death is very high. If you choose this course of action do not expect me to throw you a life line.
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About to write a review for the scenario as I think it's under-rated at the moment on the store page. No one died in my all-6's 4-man-run but my dice were cold as a GM (at least three Dragon Rot first strikes rolled a 2). That said, the party was not well optimized for the fight with 3 melee fighters (Grappler Barbarian/Druid (Its a weird support build); Intimidate Rogue, and Mountain Monk kicking at AC 26-28) and one caster (draconic sorcerer with Oracle Multi for limited healing access) meaning most of their healing was through Battle Medicine, and even with more average dice I think only one player would have been realistically dropped. The party did have the benefit of having learned that Blood Oozes are weak to kiting from playing Plaguestone beforehand, and they quickly adapted to a combat tactic of using Haste to engage/strike twice/flee to handle the combat by forcing most enemies to move 2+ times to get in range to attack. If GM's think their party will not realize this, it may be a good Recall Knowledge hint to drop that Blood Oozes are not known for their speed.
I rolled low on recharge times for all Forest Rots, but the combat moved fast enough that it only gave me one extra breath weapon using the assumed rule that a roll of a 1 meant that it still had a gap round and not that it could breathe back to back. No one rolled well enough on the Ritual to crit succeed and discover the Fire weakness of the rots, but they still handled them well. AC 22 is not particularly high for this CR, so they ended up taking a lot of hits.
Overall I could see the combat being an issue if any of the following is true: 1. The party is not one of players who are looking for a challenge and are running subpar builds with little thought for synergy; 2. The party is unwilling to modify their tactics to meet the demands of the combat, or 3. The GM is purposefully brutal with monster spawn locations due to the scenario's vagenuess as to where creatures spawn in. In regards to point 1, I think it may be a good idea for GM's unsure of where their party falls to emphasize that they have completed the mission at this point, and that this will indeed by a severe challenge and not a "dangerous" fight in boxtext only. For point 2, this can easily be remedied by GM's prompting players to consider the encounter layout and perhaps attempt to Recall Knowledge. For point 3, there was a point in the scenario where I could have dropped the Round 3 rot directly adjacent to the Grappler (assuming they can spawn in anywhere in the ritual zone), and it had rolled high enough initiative to beat him on initiative for the coming round, meaning it would get a chance to strike thrice before he could react. Don't be that guy as a GM unless the party clearly is handling the fight well IMO, worst case scenario I'd recommend spawning the waves near the center of the ritual site after round 1 as that is at least something players can account for to some extent.
That write up aside, scenario was a blast and I'd rate it 5/5. Tonbu was a bit weak in terms of buildup, but was a cool encounter, the web lurker fight is a good combat intro, the scenario has some nice flavor in between combats, and the obstacle course is fun especially if you play up Jackpot throughout it. (I pre-wrote lines to have him knowingly imply the next challenge and read his lines in a high pitched child voice, such as "I suuure hope there aren't any CLIFFS nearby! I'm just so enamored with NAATURE'S MAJESTY that I would neeeeever know!" and "Oh no! I fell into a ravine, and now there's all this BLOOOD EVERY-WHERE! I need FIRST AID, or else I'll -DIIIIIE!-". I heartily recommend other GM's do similar, the party had a blast with it and our serious grappler was considering leaving the Verdant Wheel afterwards, which I consider a success.) Probably one of my favorite scenarios in PFS2.
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For what it’s worth, during the ritual, I have the monsters emerging from the dragon, appearing adjacent to her and then moving up the stairs. This is based on her malignant illness being the source of the materials for the monsters and Urwal is drawing them out. I even describe the blood oozes as being yellow-green-purple like the stuff oozing from her rotting scales. Their ultimate goal is to move up the stairs and destroy the source of the power that is trying to expel them from their “source” of food, that being the dragon. It’s why Urwal wanted them positioned where they are rather than anywhere else in the area. A blaster or ranged warrior might have preferred to set up somewhere in the main cave, but he needs their primary focus to be keeping the monsters off his ass while he completes the ritual. While I generally agree with hit and run tactics especially when the PCs are faster than their enemies or when the enemy has a special attack action that requires a prior hit (like a zombie) the area is relatively small here and the oozes are large with reach. If there are six PCs there simply isn’t enough space to consistently keep the enemies out of reach while also keeping them away from the squishies and blocking them from going after Urwal. Though it might be sufficient to just keep away from adjacency if for no other reason than to avoid the Blood Pool, even if that doesn’t affect their ability to attack. YMMV
Venture-Agent, California—Silicon Valley
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The problem with that is that the scenario says "The ritual begins with one dragon forest rot and one ooze, expelling them near to where the PCs have been set to guard both Urwal and the wounded dragon."
I read that as them appearing in the Ritual Area with the other PCs, which if they rolled good initiatives can be a problem.
The scenario also mentions that the dragon rot doesn't attempt to avoid allies with their breath weapon, so intentionally having them hit their own allies can help to keep the balance in the PCs favor. Neither the Dragon Rots nor the Slimes are immune to poison so it should do a significant amount of damage.
Also of note, technically none of the enemies are immune to the Sickened condition, though I usually say all Oozes are since they don't really have digestive systems...
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Contributor
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The oozes are not immune to sickened, but they do have awesome fortitude saves, so it's rare that one fails. The party always cheers if they do. The final encounter was supposed to be one verging on extreme, though the right party mix will help.
I have no problem with subesequent oozes and rots starting at the dragon and moving forward. It was intentional that the oozes and dragon rot area effects can injure allies, and that none of the creatures are bright enough to flank or exclude allies.
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Contributor
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If a character catches slime rot and it is four (five?) days back to the Pathfinder camp, should we account for them advancing through the disease if they do not have a way to resolve it? Or can Urwal or Jadirahx cure it? Or should we just hand-waive it? Or can they get back quicker because they aren't being slowed by Urwal's trance? If so, is it roughly half the return time?
1) Urwal can probably cure it with awesome herbal knowledge. It's Urwal.
2) The party can get back faster because they are not baby-sitting an entranced iruxi.