Freedom of Movement vs Icy Prison


Rules Questions

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Freedom of movment does let you ignore it RAW, by the same reading it also makes you immune to pretty much anything that stops you acting other than perhaps daze (which doesn't actually stop you moving, merely deprives you of actions), including wall of stone, wall of ice (in fact icy prison is extremely similar to encasing someone in a wall of ice) etc.

Silver Crusade

yukongil wrote:
rorek55 wrote:
yukongil wrote:

I'd bet more for expediency of programming than rules lawyering. It probably has the same programming as Hold Person, allowing FoM to ignore it, instead of its own unique ruleset.

As for the OP question, I'd rule that it doesn't negate the imprisonment, but does the entangling effect like many others here, and two, this is why I hate many spells that have automatic functions like this. I generally detest a singular ability that negates an entire subset of hazards or even entire schools of magic (I'm looking at you True Sight!)

perhaps, but without FoM, PCs would have a much harder time simply staying alive at higher levels (9+). Which can be hard enough as it is already. I dislike heavily offensive oriented systems, and while PF has a tendency to do this, being survivable as a party is actually highly preferential to being offensive, and anything in pathfinder that favors a defensive orientation I embrace fully. Its also really effective for recurring villains!

I don't have a problem with a high chance of success (or even a really high chance), but it's the automatic nature I don't really like.

The spells or abilities that do this aren't unique or a capstone ability, whereas the abilities they counter are often feat intensive, and/or sub-par to begin with. I mean who's winning battles with Entangle? A dedicated Grappler is built around one thing, and then a caster's 1 spell out of the dozens they may have, completely negates their entire build, same goes for an illusionist, they are already pretty hard to use, as most players are a cowardly and suspicious lot and then no matter how good of one you might throw at them or how subtle you play it, one True Seeing makes the whole thing fall apart.

Tettori can ignore FoM.

Illusionists are already ineffective vs mindless opponents. However if you are talknig about vs the party, the party doesn't get a will save unless they interact.

But no, anyone who focuses completely on one thing will always fail. This doesn't have anything to do with spells. Its a common fact one trick ponies are ineffective. The simple answer is have a fall back option when your primary one is ineffective.


rorek55 wrote:

Tettori can ignore FoM.

cool, how about any other type of grappler?

Quote:
Illusionists are already ineffective vs mindless opponents.

only phantasms and patterns, if they have physical senses, it can still effect them with figments, glamors and shadows.

Quote:

However if you are talknig about vs the party, the party doesn't get a will save unless they interact.

But no, anyone who...

well in pretty much all cases, player or npc, they're going to interact with it, otherwise why is it even there? If you're just making random illusions of cows in the far distance...more commonly though, it'll be an illusionary wall, a person or creature or something else that is going to get interacted with

and it's not about focusing on one thing and paying the price for ultra-specializing, it's about negating an entire swath of encounters and builds with one spell, again, which is just one of many that the spellcaster will get. Look at any other protective spell, they have thresholds, provide bonuses or mitigate a certain amount of things before becoming overwhelmed. Protection from Arrows, Stoneskin, Resist Energy, Protection from Energy. There isn't a fourth level spell that just makes you immune to physical damage and you have to be pretty high level to be able to cast any spell that will outright negate an attack type, but at that point the class you're immune to has it's own counters to your counter (thinking Elemental Body IV, Iron Body, etc. vs Sneak Attack)

Silver Crusade

Why would you hyper focus grappling without taking tettori? Its sort of a bad thing to do even without worrying about magic.

HP/damage is a bad comparison because, at the end of the day, combat's currency is HP. Everything else helps or hinders your ability to exchange this currency. So an effect nullifying HP damage is automatically more powerful than one that nullifies conditions. Direct vs indirect.

Resilient sphere can make one immune to physical damage. Not without negatives, but it can.

Illusions are already heavily GM reliant in how powerful they can be, especially for players.

You seem to be coming from a GM perspective.

I personally like illusory walls with runes inscribed on them, I make use of runes (such as explosive runes) on real things. So when I talk about runes being on things players tend to be more cautious about overtly interacting with them.

Also, a good illusionist doesn't rely on magic alone. I've had more clever NPCs make use of actual runes and illusion magic to good effect. Example- Have a sign hanging in the air, and you shape the illusion around it. Inscribe runes on the sign.

Perhaps the magically savvy illusionist puts his wall up in-front of an actual wall that looks exactly the same. True seeing would ignore the illusory wall, and the one under its effects simply "confirms" the wall is real.

All this aside, True seeing is a 6th level spell, IIRC, which is level 11 at the earliest, and even then its only 1-3 times a day. And if the wizard is using his slot on true seeing, he isn't using it on other things. Which may or may not matter.

Past level 12 the game starts to slide out of control anyway. 15 being the real breaking point IMO.

but we are getting slightly off topic.

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