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This is a minor thing regarding vehicle chases (pages 282-283), but what is the point of Keep Pace as an option? In all cases and under all circumstances, Evade is always the better choice.
The DC: (10 + vehicle’s item level) in both cases
Consequences of failure: If you fail to Keep Pace, your vehicle falls back a square in the Chase Progress phase. Keep Pace also mentions that many other pilot actions also result in moving forward if successful at the cost of higher chances of failure, but is this supposed to have been conveying that failing those other checks also results in losing a square in the Chase Progress phase? I ask because this is the only part I’ve read that even hints at this. And even if it’s true that failing an Evade check also results in falling back during the Chase phase, you’re not risking a higher chance of failure, since the DCs are the same for both. And if it’s not true and failing an Evade check does not result in falling back, then why ever Keep Pace?
The benefits: If you Keep Pace, you move up a square in the Chase phase. If you Evade, you move up a square in the Chase phase AND you get a +2 bonus to your vehicle’s AC.
So why did they even bother wasting the ink to put Keep Pace in print?
It gets worse. The Speed Up action, is a bit tougher, but success allows you to move twice. But a failure by 4 or less means you still move once anyway.
But at least it’s easily understandable why that’s an option; it has a distinct benefit from Evade and it’s DC is different. Not so with Keep Pace; it’s exactly as tough as Evade, has the same consequences of failure, and provides precisely half Evade’s benefit. So why would anyone Keep Pace when they could Evade instead? Why is it an option? Is there ever a circumstance where Keep Pace does better? I know Evade doesn’t stack with itself, but how would that translate into “I had the option to also Keep Pace; I’m glad I took it; that was a worthwhile use of my time”?
Doesn't seem like evade allows you to move forward though.
It does. Both Keep Pace and Evade allow you to move 1 zone forward in the Chase Progress phase. It’s just that Evade also gives you that bonus to AC without even a higher DC to achieve it, or a more severe consequence of failure.
Only according to the table, which may be an error. It may well be intended that you need to do both keep pace and evade in the same round in order to move forward.
That's a lot of assumptions though.
Only according to the table, which may be an error. It may well be intended that you need to do both keep pace and evade in the same round in order to move forward.
That's a lot of assumptions though.
I don’t think we can really take that as the intended way to read this. In the table, every single entry (with the obvious exception of Slow Down) allows one to move forward one zone in the Chase phase. In the in-depth descriptions of the pilot actions, Keep Pace says it gives you the forward move in the Chase phase and says that many other pilot actions give you that same forward move. On the other hand, no other pilot action description specifically says it gives you the Chase phase forward move (which either points to the table being the authority on the subject or makes a lie out of the Keep Pace description). And in the Advance Vehicles section on page 284, the very first sentence tells us that one required check results in a given vehicle moving forward (and since Slow Down is the only action that lacks a check, this just corroborates that the table is the definitive source of what all actions give you the Chase phase move forward).
Far more plausible is that Evade is supposed to be a higher DC. But there should be some reason for Keep Pace existing.
We ran a cross desert vehicle chase in our first session (to get a feel for the rules), and thought the rules were a big let down.
Basically the party were on a hover skiff while being chased by 4 hoverbikes. What should gave been an awesome action packed chase became a 2 turn let down.
All because of the Speed Up action.
Badically the players used speed up two turns in a row, leaving the first 3 bikes in the dust on turn one, and the second one on turn two.
Why would you ever do anything other than take the speed up action?
Chances are we totally didn't get the vehicle chase rules, but based on our experience, we probably won't use chases. Which I think is a terrible shame. Cause vehicle chases are awesome.
So I can totally understand why you think Keep up is a bit useless.
If the PC with the highest Piloting skill jumps into the driver's seat, you can pretty much outrun most NPCs with the Speed up action.
Or is the chase system only designed for PCs chasing down NPCs?
I think I'm going to be playing with 5 zones instead of 3.
Also, I'm thinking of having a running "speed of the map" and every time someone does a 'speed up' maneuver, it goes up by 5. Every time someone does a 'slow down' it goes down by 5.
Then, you have a penalty to all piloting checks of -1 for every 10 mph over 60. (70=-1, 80=-2, 90=-3, 100=-4, and so on).
Also, if you are at your vehicle's top speed, you may not do a 'speed up' maneuver. So, the chase might start at 40mph, but if your top speed is 70mph and my top speed is 200mph, eventually you'll hit a ceiling and won't be able to get away (without doing tricks etc).
I would also alter the damage for those who fell onto the road, based on the map speed at the time.
And, side note: I will be changing 'keep pace' DC to 5+item level - otherwise it makes absolutely no sense to ever do.
I'm not sure that you need to spam this same text on every single thread on the forum that relates to vehicle chases. Just sayin'
No, it doesn't make sense that the penalty for failing a Keep Pace action is harsher than the penalty for doing absolutely nothing (Uncontrolled vehicles) or deliberately trying to fall back in the chase (Slow Down). When I was reading through the vehicle chase rules, I think this made so little sense that I mentally blocked it from my conscious thoughts. I hadn't noticed that implication of the text of the rules until reading through this thread.
Also, the text mentions that the DC for Keep Pace is lower than any of the other actions that allow you to move forward during the chase progress phase - which is incorrect when you look at Evade. That does seem like a bug. Lowering the DC of Keep Pace would make sense. As would raising the DC of Evade to be 15 + item level (to match the DC of Trick).