Hello everyone,
I most likely overlooked it while searching the Core Rulebook, but I can't seem to figure out what amount of dragon parts the party could harvest from a dragon.
The party was just able to slay an Adult Black Dragon und want to transport it back to their guild. How much could they harvest from it? I don't want to hand out too much and later regret it.
The only rules I found about this are from Pathfinder 1e:
Quote: Armorsmiths can work with the hides of dragons to produce armor or shields of masterwork quality. One dragon produces enough hide for a single suit of masterwork hide armor for a creature one size category smaller than the dragon. By selecting only choice scales and bits of hide, an armorsmith can produce one suit of masterwork banded mail for a creature two sizes smaller, one suit of masterwork half-plate for a creature three sizes smaller, or one masterwork breastplate or suit of full plate for a creature four sizes smaller. In each case, enough hide is available to produce a light or heavy masterwork shield in addition to the armor, provided that the dragon is Large or larger. Thank you all for any possible help.
This sounds like a good rule of thumb and pretty complete actually.
Do your PCs know the Familicide spell? Just asking :-D
I had to look up the spell, as you had me worried what kind of shenanigans the party could do with it. Luckily it seems to be a homebrew spell, so for now there are still some Ancient Black Dragons alive to fight against later.
And thank you for you response. If there is no official rule for 2e I overlooked, I will just follow the one I quoted.
Familicide.
And they are Black Dragons even ;-)
As I said, I am really glad the spell does not exist in our campaign. Otherwise, I would need to worry about Golarion without any monsters. :)
But back to the dragonhide problem:
I just tried to figure out how much they could get out of the Black Dragon, but the problem I have now is with the standard-grad and high-grad dragonhide.
If it were only enough for standard-grade equipment and I go by the above rule from 1e, they would only get around 240 gp of dragonhide (Hide armor and every medium armor is 2 Bulk, so 200 + 40). But if it already were enough for a high-grade armor, they would get 19,200 gp in dragonhide (16,000 + 3,200 for the Bulk).
It overall just feels a bit problematic to find the correct equivalent of the above rule in the 2e ruleset.
I would say Standard grade, because of all the stabbing and burning the hide endured during the fight. To have High Grade, the hide should be taken by a Master of their craft from a Dragon that was killed through subtle means that leave no blemish on the hide.
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Also, standard grade dragon armor is 12th level and an adult black dragon is only 11. If they want high grade armor they need to take down a higher grade dragon, IMO. I don't even think they could make high grade armor at their likely level?
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Thank you for your responses.
So I will go with around 240 gp worth of dragonhide for now, as this seems to be more reasonable.
If they can get the amount needed for high-grade armor from an Ancient Dragon is something I have to consider when we get there. But as the campaign will be close to over by then, it would not matter that much anymore.
And yes, they would not even be able to craft the item level 19 dragonhide armor, but what would stop them from selling the hide? So staying with the standard-grade for now seems to be a good idea, to not break the economy in their current hometown/city too much.
You wouldn't happen to be playing Ironfang Invasion would you?
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I'd also make it a Survival/Craft Rolls and downtime or exploration scale activity (I go for 1 hour per roll) to skin the beast, unless they are lugging the carcass to someone else to do it (at which point they should get less money for it as that person is having to do the skinning.) Probably divide it into several smaller rolls so the payout isn't ruined entirely on bad luck. As a houserule I do one such roll per size of the creature (starting at 1 roll for Small, 2 for Medium etc.) Divide the payout by the number of rolls.
So for the Adult Black Dragon I'd do something like this. Large = 3 chances to roll.
DC 28 Craft/Survival
Critical Success: 120 GP from this section of the beast.
Success: 80 GP from this section of the beast.
Failure: Shoddy work, only 40GP
Critical Failure: Ruined hide, 0GP.
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Hopefully the party has a necromancer, otherwise transporting the corpse of a dragon will be rather difficult.
Otherwise they have to skin it on the spot with whatever tools they have at hand.
I wonder how regeneration might work with something like that.
Infinite golds, or eventually dragon hide may become inflated.
HumbleGamer wrote: I wonder how regeneration might work with something like that.
Infinite golds, or eventually dragon hide may become inflated.
Regenerate only works on willing targets. I don't think dominate makes a creature willing, so not sure how to make a dragon accept a regenerate only to be skinned alive over and over again.
Not to mention thats capital Evil. Which doesn't mean that it isn't done. Might expalin why dragonhide is so cheap
Sorry for my late response, but I just went to bed after my last message and had a long day of work.
Malk_Content, I really love the idea. But they already have an NPC in mind to help them with the skinning and harvesting of the carcass. I will keep this in mind for something they might not be able to get back to town. As to how they can get it back, see below in my response to Ixal.
Captain Morgan wrote: You wouldn't happen to be playing Ironfang Invasion would you? Nah, I am currently running a homebrew campaign after we finished “The Fall of Plaguestone”. The party continued their journey to Almas and after some side quests established a small base of operation there. They are now leading a small guild and – following the rule of Pokemon – try to collect every NPC they like for their guild.
Ixal wrote: Hopefully the party has a necromancer, otherwise transporting the corpse of a dragon will be rather difficult.
Otherwise they have to skin it on the spot with whatever tools they have at hand.
They actually lucked out on this one. Their party normally consists of a Fighter, Champion, Warpriest Cleric and an Alchemist. For this mission the Alchemist stayed back in their guild due to a decision of the player, which led to their barbarian guild member NPC to come along, controlled by the Alchemist player, so that he had something to do.
Following their quest, they just came back from a dwarven mine and were guarding a huge delivery of iron and other metal ores on its way to a cargo ship. They were attacked quite close to the harbor town they wanted to reach and were able to slay the dragon on the spot. Now they plan to drag the dragon to port and get it shipped over on the cargo ship with the iron. It will then be harvested at their guild. They most certainly will have to pay the captain something to take it along, but this is something they already accepted.
Intemperiae wrote:
They actually lucked out on this one. Their party normally consists of a Fighter, Champion, Warpriest Cleric and an Alchemist. For this mission the Alchemist stayed back in their guild due to a decision of the player, which led to their barbarian guild member NPC to come along, controlled by the Alchemist player, so that he had something to do.
Following their quest, they just came back from a dwarven mine and were guarding a huge delivery of iron and other metal ores on its way to a cargo ship. They were attacked quite close to the harbor town they wanted to reach and were able to slay the dragon on the spot. Now they plan to drag the dragon to port and get it shipped over on the cargo ship with the iron. It will then be harvested at their guild. They most certainly will have to pay the captain something to take it along, but this is something they already accepted.
A good thing that the cleric has access to Gentle Response (I hope?).
Although dragging the corpse probably won't work. Guess they have to dump some ore (and compensate the dwarves for it).
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Ixal wrote: A good thing that the cleric has access to Gentle Response (I hope?).
Although dragging the corpse probably won't work. Guess they have to dump some ore (and compensate the dwarves for it).
He has Gentle Repose, so there should be no problem casting it every day on the way back.
But in regards to dragging it, why should it not work? Did I read the rules wrong?
An Adult Black Dragon is only a Large creature, and following the Bulk of Creatures table on p. 272 would weight around 12 Bulk.
And dragging on the same page states:
Quote: In some situations, you might drag an object or creature rather than carry it. If you’re dragging something, treat its Bulk as half. So, to drag the dragon would only be 6 Bulk. All 4 Characters have a strength modifier of +4 currently, with two of them even having the Hefty Hauler feat. Without any equipment on, each of them, while then under penalty due to the weight, could even carry it, as they have a bulk limit of 14 or 16 respectively.
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You people are sick! SICK!
Dragon Rights League wrote: You people are sick! SICK! I am considering your point and maybe one of my players should learn the Familicide spell. ;-)
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Dragon Rights League wrote: You people are sick! SICK! Well, yeah. The morality of using body parts of sapient creatures for clothing is a huge can of worms and thus most people don't want to open it.
Generally fantasy RPGs have very questionable morality, especially when you apply modern definitions of racism to them (which is why most people don't).
Ixal wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: I wonder how regeneration might work with something like that.
Infinite golds, or eventually dragon hide may become inflated.
Regenerate only works on willing targets. I don't think dominate makes a creature willing, so not sure how to make a dragon accept a regenerate only to be skinned alive over and over again.
Not to mention thats capital Evil. Which doesn't mean that it isn't done. Might expalin why dragonhide is so cheap I was thinking about a dragon cult with its leader who self inflict mutilation on itself in order to gain more golds than ever.
He will be willing to either mutilate himself and receive regeneration.
But there might be plenty of different examples when it comes to Unlimited golds in probably one of the quickest way ever.
HumbleGamer wrote: Ixal wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: I wonder how regeneration might work with something like that.
Infinite golds, or eventually dragon hide may become inflated.
Regenerate only works on willing targets. I don't think dominate makes a creature willing, so not sure how to make a dragon accept a regenerate only to be skinned alive over and over again.
Not to mention thats capital Evil. Which doesn't mean that it isn't done. Might expalin why dragonhide is so cheap I was thinking about a dragon cult with its leader who self inflict mutilation on itself in order to gain more golds than ever.
He will be willing to either mutilate himself and receive regeneration.
But there might be plenty of different examples when it comes to Unlimited golds in probably one of the quickest way ever. That sounds rather strange at first for a dragon to do, but who knows how they think and what value they place on gold. So why not?
As for dragon harvesting industry, a zombie dragon might work if you rule that the hide of a zombie is still usable for crafting. You raise a dragon corpse as zombie, maybe apply a unlimited Gentle Response and then you can always heal it with Harm and cut the skin off over and over.
Requires a critical success on create undead though to have the zombie under your command.
Edit: Doesn't work. Gentle Response is incompatible with undead and without it the Zombie will likely rot so that the hide is not useable anymore after some time.
Ixal wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: Ixal wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: I wonder how regeneration might work with something like that.
Infinite golds, or eventually dragon hide may become inflated.
Regenerate only works on willing targets. I don't think dominate makes a creature willing, so not sure how to make a dragon accept a regenerate only to be skinned alive over and over again.
Not to mention thats capital Evil. Which doesn't mean that it isn't done. Might expalin why dragonhide is so cheap I was thinking about a dragon cult with its leader who self inflict mutilation on itself in order to gain more golds than ever.
He will be willing to either mutilate himself and receive regeneration.
But there might be plenty of different examples when it comes to Unlimited golds in probably one of the quickest way ever. That sounds rather strange at first for a dragon to do, but who knows how they think and what value they place on gold. So why not?
I have come to understand that when it comes to gold and power ( and gold leads to power ), there's barely nothing that stops evil people ( especially when they can make a profit without the need of evil deeds ).
On the other hand, it would be definitely painful.
Dragon who worships Zon-Kuthon.
But they are likely to want to enlighten the adventurers first.
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Evil dragon: "Yeah, sure, I'll sell you some of my skin and scales, come to my lair and get them. And be sure to bring money!"
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