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The granted power for the teleportation sub-school (shift), allows the caster to teleport 'as if using dimension door'. Would this ability fill the prerequisite of the Dimensional agility feat(and the rest of that feat tree)?
The prerequisites are the ability to cast dimension door or the abundant step class feature.
If a character does meet the normal prerequisites would he be able to use that feats benefits with the granted power from this sub-school?
Agreed. By RAW, no. But wouldn't hurt to ask your GM for a sensible ruling.
Agreed. By RAW, no. But wouldn't hurt to ask your GM for a sensible ruling.
The sensible ruling would be not to allow it, the requirements are pretty hard to get for a reason, the more advanced feats are very powerful.
A summoner or wizard can take the first feat at level 7, a horizon walker can manage to qualify as a 9th level character.|
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And for all that, all that Dimensional Dervish actually does is give you super-Mobility and Pounce a limited number of times per day on characters that are less than full BAB. Mechanically, it's really not that powerful. Flavorwise, it's completely awesome.
Thus, my assertion that it's a bit too hard to get to the good stuff.
It seems more designed for the monk, but the whole dimension door thing got thrown in at the end, mechanically its actually kinda scary. Flanking with yourself, closing with airborne enemies, bypassing defensive spells and fortifications. All really cool stuff, just a little too late in the game to really see any significant use.
Honestly I'd put a minimum distance on the whole teleportation sub-school ability (taking any of them at 1st level would be lame anyway, 5ft teleportation isn't much of a tactical advantage). About level 7-9 feels right for this kind of thing.
The magus qualifies for this ability at 10th level by the way. Which isn't too bad.
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Actually, it doesn't let you do anything special to flying enemies (well, you can attack them, but they can't be more than 60' in the air for non-monks, and if they're more than 30' up you're going to fall at the end of the attack), you still need line of sight and line of effect to the target to charge them, you still need to charge to the nearest square, etc. Dervish gets around the charge restrictions because it's not a charge, but you're still boned against flying enemies.
And Magi don't actually get to take Dimensional Agility until 11th level, which means they can't take Dervish until 15th. That's way too late. Barbarians get all-day everyday pounce at 10, which is by far the largest part of the power of the Dimensional Dervish feat.
With just dimensional agility and no other you can teleport the full distance and grapple (or some other maneuver, but I recommend grapple too prevent falling), using that against an airborne opponent is kinda cool. Very situational though, but still cool. The distance restriction could be overcome with other movement enhancements such as haste or expeditious retreat, so a caster could get some serious range on the dervish attack, though why a dedicated caster would do this instead of simply casting an attack spell I'm not sure. SR maybe?
A Magus could retrain a feat to take it at 10th level, but I suppose you're right about it really being 11th level for most players.
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yeah, synthesist qualifies for it earliest, getting to cast dimension door once per day at 6th level, then gaining dimension door on his spell list at 7th level. he can start taking the feats, and meets the requisite babs, so he can take it at 7th, 9th, and 11th, if the campaign lasts, he can get one or two of the other feats too, depending on whether he does combat maneuvers or wants to flank with himself.
even if you were to say multiclass and only take one level in wizard so you get the most out of this loophole early, it is still pretty pointless. as a fullround action you can teleport 5 feet and full attack....5 foot step much? and you cant charge or flank with it because ruling on the feat states (Up to the maximum distance allowed by the spell) even if your dm was to allow you to use this trick, you could only move 5 feet unfortunatly :(
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build options: wizard/full bab class/eldritch knight ~ start taking them around 9th/10th level, magus ~ 11th level, cleric (travel domain) ~ 7th level start, summoner ~ 7th level start.
if you can convince your gm: wizard (teleport school), or shadow dancer 4 (shadow jump) are good candidates to be house ruled to allow use of the feats.
I am still a fan of the horizon walker option which gets dimension door 3+wis mod as spell-like ability at 3rd lvl HW if you select astral plane domination. It takes 3 levels into the PrC and a minimum level of 9th to get the 1st feat, but it can be done by any class, endurance and 6 ranks knowledge geography isn't so bad to enter the PrC, the PrC retains full BAB, 6 skill points/lvl, a favored terrain besides astral and +1 to hit and damage vs outsiders as a bonus.
An interesting option for many non-spellcasting focused characters.
The granted power for the teleportation sub-school (shift), allows the caster to teleport 'as if using dimension door'. Would this ability fill the prerequisite of the Dimensional agility feat(and the rest of that feat tree)?
The prerequisites are the ability to cast dimension door or the abundant step class feature.If a character does meet the normal prerequisites would he be able to use that feats benefits with the granted power from this sub-school?
Clearly no on the qualification question.
Mostly yes on the utility question.
With just dimensional agility and no other you can teleport the full distance and grapple
Unless you have a Quicken rod, how are you managing this? Dimension Door is a standard action, grapple is a standard action.
Even with the full line of feats, you STILL can't grapple. Dimensional Assault only allows a charge, and Dimensional Dervish only allows a full attack. Neither one works with grappling, unless you're a Tetori or something.