SFS 3-14: Fleeting Truth: Hollow Lies


GM Discussion

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsebo) 1/5 5/55/55/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

I played through this scenario and, despite dying to Scaranis's Mindkiller while having Death Ward up (how is that not a death effect?) I had a blast. Yay high level content - and all of the fun callbacks and foreshadowing in the Scrying Hall! I am now prepping to run it as a GM.

Specific rules interaction I'm looking for a second opinion on, that I suspect other GMs will want to keep in mind: how do PCs with Necrografts interact with Scaranis's Undead Mastery ability?

Necrografts very specifically say that the creature can be subjected to undead-specific effects, so...I'm tempted to say yeah, Scaranis can dominate Necrograft PCs, although they'd get the bonus to the save. It's mean and nasty, but, like...it's a space lich, of course it's mean and nasty :D

For reference:
Undead Mastery (Su) As a standard action, Scaranis can cause one undead creature within 50 feet to fall under his control as per control undead (Will DC 24 negates). This control is permanent for unintelligent undead; an undead creature with an Intelligence score can attempt an additional saving throw each day to break free. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by Scaranis’s undead mastery for 24 hours. Scaranis can control a group of undead whose total CR is no greater than twice his CR (30).

Necrograft Subtype: Creatures with this subtype are also damaged by spells that damage undead and can be subjected to other undead-specific effects. If a spell or ability that does something other than deal damage would not normally affect such a creature but does affect undead, it can affect a creature with the necrograft subtype, but that creature gains a bonus to its AC and saving throw against the effect equal to 4 – the number of necrografts it has (to a minimum bonus of +0).

EDIT: Ok just realized Scaranis has Dominate Person, so mind control shenanigans are clearly on the table here.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

What is there to stop the party from effectively taking 20 to shut down the skulls from a safe distance?

Shadow Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, Ohio—Columbus

James Anderson wrote:
What is there to stop the party from effectively taking 20 to shut down the skulls from a safe distance?

The bad guy shooting spells at you from inside his protected cage?

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

On the first map, not the second. That's a very good reason on the second.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsebo) 1/5 5/55/55/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

I don't think there's anything preventing taking 20 to shut down the skull statues (other than the asterays in the first room.) In both the game I played and the game I GM'd, that's exactly what both parties did.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

They ended up shutting down red & green, but didn't take the gems out. They shut down white & purple and took THOSE gems at least. The others they saw on the map but ignored entirely. So I had 6 rounds of blasting with the cold. Oof. Except for the operative who evaded every time :C

I also took someone down with Mindkiller. And had one mostly out of the fight with confusion. And the Solarian had no real ranged options. So really I was just dealing with the operative. And for both sides it came down to some key rolls.

The shields dropped quick though. Operative had a 100' move speed (and used a spell gem of gravity something to keep it), so got near the generator round one, disabled it round 2, disabled the next round 3.

Shooting a flying person in the knee should not drop them to the ground!

Exo-Guardians 2/5 5/5

In case I run this again, what should happen if a character with a necrograft climbs in the pool? There is a different effect based on being undead (damage or spa day) but you aren't really undead. No one tried it, but it could come up.

FWIW, as soon as I said the skill transfer destroyed the remains all my players said NOPE. I have a feeling <5% of characters will go for it.

5/5 5/55/55/5

wolaberry wrote:

In case I run this again, what should happen if a character with a necrograft climbs in the pool? There is a different effect based on being undead (damage or spa day) but you aren't really undead. No one tried it, but it could come up.

FWIW, as soon as I said the skill transfer destroyed the remains all my players said NOPE. I have a feeling <5% of characters will go for it.

Avoiding that was the best use of a summoned water elemental ever. Alas poor Dampy.

I would say A necrograft not much. If if they have enough necrografts to get no bonus against undead saves probably treat them like undead.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsebo) 1/5 5/55/55/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

So, the Necrograft subtype has this line:

AonSRD wrote:
If a spell or ability that does something other than deal damage would not normally affect such a creature but does affect undead, it can affect a creature with the necrograft subtype...

...but it doesn't have the rider about "take whichever effect is worse for abilities that affect both types" which some other similar things have. So I think a strict RAW interpretation is that a living creature with the necrograft subtype in the blood bath would both take damage, and be healed, in the blood bath? I'd net those two out to say "no effect," but I'd flavour it so the PC feels like they're both being dissolved and also healed at the same time by the blood.

As wolaberry points out, I don't think many PCs would opt for the blood bath. When I played through this first as a player, the initial impression was that the effects were permanent; which, heck yeah I'd take Infamy to get a free +15 in a skill! If it only lasts for 8 hours, though...not so much.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Keep in mind that the dual typing isn't whatever is worse, but whatever is more expansive or more specific.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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So is the sphere supposed to be a one way force barrier? He can shoot out but the party can't shoot in? That's really. really harsh....

Without that barrier this looks like an epic fight just on the encounter alone.

With it you're giving the big bad 4 or 5 rounds of free uninterupted spellcasting: The areas high gravity means the party is moving at half speed and will take 2 rounds to cross the floor.

and thats a HUGE boost in the difficulty: its almost like adding a second lich to the fight.

Dark Archive 4/5 *** Venture-Agent, Finland—Tampere

I don't the barrier was actually that bad because even with high gravity, the full round is only for engineering check, I understood the option of paying with resolve being standard action. That said depends completely on party composition, rolls and whether anybody has super high speed (or somehow already acclimated to high gravity)

What really is hard about the fight is that boss has access to multiple casting of dominate person which especially on four players is hard :'D They mostly won because they had good luck with commands vs their nature rolls

5/5 5/55/55/5

Jesse Lehto wrote:
I don't the barrier was actually that bad because even with high gravity, the full round is only for engineering check, I understood the option of paying with resolve being standard action. That said depends completely on party composition, rolls and whether anybody has super high speed (or somehow already acclimated to high gravity)

Right, but you still have to get there with the ginormous dragons in the way.

Quote:
What really is hard about the fight is that boss has access to multiple casting of dominate person

Which you normally can't cast in combat (because you WILL be hit at least once in a full round cast) But because this guy has all the benefits of a wall of force with none of the drawbacks he'll be able to get it off twice.

There's some fairly heavy (sorry) environmental effects in the bad guys favor here that aren't being accounted for. On top of that They synergize, makinge the encounter MUCH harder than the CRs would suggest.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsebo) 1/5 5/55/55/55/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

It's a real "Save or Bad" fest down there: Scaranis's Fatigue aura, Dominate and Mindkiller, both dragons' alien presence plus both can Confuse, and their breath-stealing breath weapons...there's a lot of opportunity for one bad d20 roll to really change the battle.

The adventure does a pretty good job of making it clear "you're about to go into the boss's room!" though. Most parties should clue in to that, and buff the heck up before stepping through that last portal.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

I was also unclear on if the force barrier went both ways. I was sure he could cast through it, but less so on rays. So I didn't even try to Dominate (spell attack AND saves now?) and went with the cold blasts and mindkillers. Not that my barrier lasted long (see above). I considered it later in the fight, but never had the opportunity.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

A couple times in the game I made comparisons to Waking Rune. It's a pretty apt comparison that the players agreed with.

Exo-Guardians 2/5 5/5

I concur, that Boss Room is no joke. But for the grace of the dice did no one die. I know stacking buffs are not quite the problem they were in PF1, but my players found every one they could before hopping into that portal.

5/55/55/55/5 * Venture-Agent, Minnesota

I just ran it this afternoon. I actually felt bad trying some of the effects on players. The DCs were easy for a lot of things (one character was able to auto-succeed on the Mysticism rolls) but a few of the saves were very close. Glad the party all had their t-shirts.

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