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I am Nemesis |
1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
say you are large with a 10-foot reach and have the following feat chain;
Feats Alertness, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack.
I believe it is implied because you have to have the combat expertise, dodge, mobility, spring attack chain in order to get Whirlwind Attack, that you are allowed to move, attack and move again (with SPRING ATTACK), using WHIRLWIND ATTACK in your Spring Attack.
Correct me if I'm wrong and please explain why. Thanks in advance.
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Relevant feat descriptions are here along with some FAQ's
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Spring Attack (Combat)
You can deftly move up to a foe, strike, and withdraw before he can react.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you can move up to your speed and make a single melee attack without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack. You can move both before and after the attack, but you must move at least 10 feet before the attack and the total distance that you move cannot be greater than your speed. You cannot use this ability to attack a foe that is adjacent to you at the start of your turn.
Normal: You cannot move before and after an attack.
FAQ
Can Vital Strike be used with Spring Attack? Can Vital Strike be used on a charge?
No. Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action. Spring Attack is a special kind of full-round action that includes the ability to make one melee attack, not one attack action. Charging uses similar language and can also not be used in combination with Vital Strike.
Can I use Spring Attack to make an attack from an ally’s square?
Let’s use a diagram of a 5-foot-wide hallway to help visualize this question. Periods are open squares. A is the acting character. Numbers are allies of A. X is the monster.
. . . . . A 1 2 3 X
Using the diagram as a model, the question is, “Can I use Spring Attack to move from A to 3, make an attack on the monster from 3’s square, then move back to A and end my turn?” The answer is “yes.” The key to understanding this is the general rule, “you cannot end your movement in an occupied square.” Spring Attack is a full-round action; it is not a move action, then an attack, and then another move action, it’s one continuous movement with an attack happening in the middle. Thus, with Spring Attack you’re not ending your movement until you end your movement for the turn. To look at it another way, if the character just wanted to move from A to 3 and back to A, that would be a legal move because he’s not ending his movement in 3, he’s ending his movement back in A. With Spring Attack, the character still isn’t ending his movement in 3; the feat gives him the ability to perform an attack as part of the continuous movement from A to 3 to A (regardless of whether that attack happens when he’s in an occupied square). (Even with speed 15, a character moving 15 feet from A to 3 and then 15 feet from 3 to A isn’t ending his movement in 3… using a move action to move 15 feet and a standard action to move 15 feet doesn’t mean he’s actually pausing halfway through his movement to change actions.)
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Whirlwind Attack (Combat)
You can strike out at every foe within reach.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.
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Scott Wilhelm |
I don't think you can Move and Whirlwind Attack in the same round.
Using Spring Attack is a special kind of Full Round Action.
You Whirlwind Attack in lieu of making a Full Attack.
A Full Attack is a kind of Full Round Action, but the Move-Attack-Move of Spring Attack is a Full Round Action that is not a Full Attack Action.
One thing you can do is Great Cleave after Moving. Cleave and Great Cleave are Standard Actions, and a Move is, well, a Move Action.
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![Xakihn](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/A11-Drow-Lizard-Druid.jpg)
nope. whirlwind attack is its own thing. just because you need a separate set of skills to also use this one, doesnt mean they apply.
full round action =/= full attack action.
spring attack is a full round action.
whirlwind attack is a full attack action.
you cant make a full attack if you are making something else that is a full round action
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I am Nemesis |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
then why make the combat expertise, dodge, mobility, spring attack chain REQUIREMENTS in order to get Whirlwind Attack.
if mobility and spring attack a superfluous (cuz you can still gain the benefits of combat expertise and dodge), why make them requirement for Whirlwind Attack?
i've been reading all day past threads related to Whirlwind Attack to find satisfaction (to no avail) and i realize my opinion will not change things. Just trying to find the logic behind the chain of feats.
is there a way to "POUNCE" Whirlwind attack?
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Yes, i could modify the build and preparation and go dodge, mobility, Flyby Attack (Spring Attack for fliers), then Greater Flyby Attack to make 1 attack against everyone in a straight line up to my full move (60-feet if i use a potion of flying).
I have access to Tome of Horrors IV to get;
Greater Flyby Attack (in HeroLab for me). Yes, 3rd Party.
prerequisites: Dex 13, Fly Speed, Flyby Attack, BAB +8
benefit: When making a flyby attack and flying in a straight line, the creature can make a single attack at its highest attack bonus against each opponent within reach at any point during the move. The creature makes a separate attack roll against each opponent, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity from a targeted opponent.
Now imagine being enlarged and using a reach weapon like a long spear. You'd have a 20-foot reach and be utterly devastating against ground forces, much less other aerial opponents.
[sigh] Having vented my frustration, ;-), are there any other ways to make whirlwind attack more viable other than going Greater Invisible, Spring Attacking one of the group of bad (or good) guys and making your Whirlwind Attacks against your Flat-Footed opponents in the following round?
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![Xakihn](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/A11-Drow-Lizard-Druid.jpg)
personally i like weapon master fighter, with a whip, enlarge yourself, using feats to get advanced weapon training to get warrior spirit and better weapon damage + gloves to boost weapon training to get brilliant energy on a whip and just attack threw the walls.
get tremorsense to feel the location of most enemies, and all the blindfight feats
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I am Nemesis |
personally i like weapon master fighter, with a whip, enlarge yourself, using feats to get advanced weapon training to get warrior spirit and better weapon damage + gloves to boost weapon training to get brilliant energy on a whip and just attack threw the walls.
get tremorsense to feel the location of most enemies, and all the blindfight feats
Hah, i've actually used that trick as a gm, and its a great one. Frustrated the #3!! out of my players.
1st round of attacks= trip everyone from behind the wall.2nd round of attacks= +4 to attack all of your prone opponents.
3rd round of attacks= rinse-repeat. Possibly reposition yourself.