World of Kate Daniels ("Magic Bites") series by Ilona Andrews: Midnight Games

[Sysryke]

On the advice given on the original attempt of this thread, I'm remaking/moving this thread from conversion to advice. For the sake of not having to retread old ground, I'll attempt to copy and paste, and properly credit the posts from the other thread.

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Hi folks. For starters, I legitimately do not know if this should be a conversion, advice, or possibly even product discussion thread, and I have no idea how to make multiple category threads without duplicating. If I'm in the wrong spot, sorry, and please feel free to tell me how to relocate, do it your self, or asks the mods to.

This is a pure fan boy, passion project of mine; but the community often seems on board to help with this kind of thing, and maybe this will be useful to other fans or story tellers.

****** SOME SPOILERS AHEAD **********

The entire series of Kate Daniels is worth a read, but I particularly loved the 3rd book "Magic Strikes". In that book, the main characters (and several of the supporting cast) get pulled into a magical gladitorial type tournament known as the Midnight Games. For various story reasons, the owners/designers of the games are fixated with the number 7. The grand tournament they hold annually involves an elimination style event with teams of 7 members, each of whom must fit a certain role.

This isn't even the most important part of the book, but the specialized team concept has been locked in my brain for over a decade now. Each role speaks to a different combat style and/or weapon/offensive choice. The 7 roles are as follows:

Shield - Defensive fighter

Shiv- Fast fighter (the character in the book dual wields military combat daggers)

Sling - Ranged fighter (guns, bows, whatever)

Spell - Magic user/caster

Stone - not defined, but implied that it's the big guy/gal

Stratego - not defined but implied captain/leader/strategist

SwordMaster - seemingly duh (only weapon specific role; maybe because main character is a sword user)

My questions/objectives are several fold.

1. Can anybody find any already published/established game system rules for a Kate Daniels world setting? I don't want to reinvent the wheel, and all of the series, characters, creatures, and mechanics would be fun to play with.

2. Anything by the authors to better define these roles? I'm reaching out, but the chance of getting an answer is likely slim. Anything with the creative input and authority of the authors would be ideal though.

3. If the above two can't be met (or if folks just want/like alternatives), how would you define these roles? What is required for a fighter (generic term, not the class) to qualify for a role? What actions, weapons, or styles might be restricted or excluded from a role? These answers can be fluff, but game mechanics that fit the roles are ideal.

In the book, several one off characters from other teams seemed like they could qualify for multiple roles. Obviously these terms are pretty broad in several places.

Is defensive waiting to strike back, using a shield, guarding others, or all of the above?
Is fast initiative, multiple attacks, precision damage, or other quick take down options?

All feedback, ideas, questions welcome. Anyone with superior search-fu, please feel free to provide links.

Thanks in advance to all.

[Sysryke]

avr wrote:

o my knowledge and a quick google there's no RPG conversion already. In general Kate Daniels' setting's an urban fantasy with the twist that about half the time active magic won't work (but shifters are still unnaturally strong etc.), and when magic's working 'technology' (not really defined; skyscrapers suffer so it may go into materials sciences even, but guns and swords aren't damaged...I dunno) doesn't work. Balancing that sounds a pain.

Leaving the magic/tech up thing aside urban fantasies have much more limited arrays of magic powers available than PF. It might be better to work with a system which limits that a bit, perhaps by buying each power separately (Savage Worlds edges) or which tend to be limited conceptually (FATE aspects).

I don't remember the Midnight Games well enough and I don't own a copy of that book, but a team for a gladiatorial game is unlikely to want exactly that balance unless it's enforced somehow. Is it?

[Sysryke]

Yep. Each team member is one of those roles, and a full starting team is seven members. However, depending on the capabilities of the character, it's entirely possible that one could qualify for multiple roles. To draw a rough analogy, you might be an excellent forward, but if you start a soccer match as the goalie, you're staying near the net.

This is part of what I'm trying to figure out or create. I want to know what the rules are for what qualifies a fighter to be a certain role. As important, are there any traits that exclude one from certain ? Once they're in the pit, it's use the tactics that let you win/survive, so the role defining qualities have to be more like wrestling weight categories, things that are set before the reality of the chaos of the match begins.

Also, in the elimination round before the finals, not all seven must participate in every match. So, different combinations of roles and abilities come into play. Part of that is the Stratego's job to sort out. A team must have four surviving fighters to stay in the games. A Stone, presumably the BIG (and strong/tough?) fighter, may still fight with a sword or be preternaturally fast, but he/she's always the team Stone.

As to the setting at large, the powers may not be as limited as you think. All types of magic uses exist in that world, because when magic came crashing back to the world it was colored by the faiths and folklores of all cultures and tribes throughout history. Some stuff is more common than others, but nearly anything is possible.

Post Shift Resonance (the magic/tech shifts) are more challenging, but not impossible. I'm thinking something along the lines of a modified and semi-randomly cyclical version of the Time of Troubles and/or Spell Plague. As far as how the magic treats "tech" it seems to be a vaguely Amish approach. Not a perfect equivalency, but any mechanically complex, technologically or chemically sophisticated items fail, break, or go inert. No guns, no computers, no internal combustion. Basic hand tools, forges, and possibly simple pulley machines work. Weirdly too, sometimes phones (but that's a rather funny bit from the books).

[Sysryke]

Self bump. Help a sad fan boy out. Any takers?

[Sysryke]

Tragic I know, but trying again.

Where are my build enthusiasts? How would you make or define a character for each of these roles?

[avr]

Builds now? I take it that means you're set on PF. What sort of level were you thinking of?

[Sysryke]

Hi avr! Always nice to get a response from you. I think I've bungled this whole thread, or at least my terms.

My intent here is to get both mechanical and flavor ideas that fit within the constraints of the OP's listed roles/positions. I'm trying to figure out what classes, features, or combat styles/options/weapons could be used to fill out and define each role.

This is something I will eventually need to build enemy NPCs for, probably at level 10ish if I want to avoid major rocket tag problems. So yes, build options are nice, but I'm also looking for help defining the roles.

When you consider that all 7 positions must be filled, what mechanics help to distinguish each from the other? What are tactics or actions that would be antithetical to filling a position?

The idea is to create some of what I call puzzle combats, where each character is momentarily defined in a role, and received bonuses to tactics that fit the role, and penalties to those that flour the role. Not permanent, but looking for ways to get the players to work outside their normal tactics for a fight or three.

As in upthread posts, unsure of some of the roles, so looking for help to qualify them. Shield, shiv, sling, spell, stone, stratego, and swordmaster for those who haven't checked.

[avr]

Last first; a swordmaster uses a sword. That's the only thing defined about them at all, and PF1 has little to say on what swords, only can do.

Say we take that just a little metaphorically and declare that swordmasters need to be able to win a duel with weapons and rules of fair play. Build-wise this doesn't mean much other than that dueling parries will be available and that reach weapons, movement etc. will be irrelevant in this the most fair of fights.

Stratego; someone who directs others and perhaps solves logical puzzles. Doable in PF with buffs (magic or otherwise), brains and perhaps divinations.

Stone; this is apparently the person who bends bars/lifts gates to use the AD&D terminology. Suitable battlegrounds might make that important. By 10th telekinesis/stone shape/warp metal/summons can be a thing in PF, but being the barbarian is an option.

Spell; well, yes. Being able to counterspell might matter too in puzzle sections.

Sling; yeah, ranged can be a thing too. Easy enough to make it matter.

Shiv; ahhh... stealth guy maybe?

Shield; someone who can defend others perhaps. Defending yourself is something everyone should have some ability at in gladiatorial games.

E6 or similar might work better for clear role divisions than 10th level. Or even lower level but my experience is that fans expectations run high in level numbers and it sounds like you're a fan. Have you ever seen the spittle hit the screen when people bring up 'Gandalf was a 5th level wizard (or cleric)'?

[Sysryke]

Ha! All depends on how you look at it. Funny thing is, for all that it's the fantasy granddaddy, Tolkien's Middle Earth is low magic by most standards.

Thanks for the input. What is E6? Seen it mentioned on many threads now, but I know nothing about it.

When I use this stuff, it might be at any level, but I'm likely not to have it come up before my party hits level 10.

We take turns Gaming the same group of characters at different levels. Some story arc in the future of this campaign will be mine, and I will be taking us in to some type of gladiatorial tournament. These roles/positions will comprise the biggest part of the rules of this tournament, similar to how players in team sports play different positions.

[avr]

If the rules of the game are set don't worry about E6. It's basically a hard cap on character level once you reach 6, with further advancement done by other means - usually adding feats. It avoids some of the linear warriors/quadratic wizards problems, gives full BAB classes a trick which can't be beat, and keeps out the world building problems of free teleportation and raising the dead etc.

Middle Earth is indeed low magic. PF is not quite the highest amount of magic out there, but close enough. The distribution of stories and myths out there skews more to the low end than the high end I think.