Hi, I have a doubt about how to deal with a failed Will ST.
A PC moved into a room and failed it, so he still sees an endless desert. He walked and hit the wall, so he rolled again and...failed again. But he can't move forward so he wants to climb the wall...can he do it? I mean, he feels there is something but he can't see it...should I allow him to climb? Is there a rule that I couldn't find?
More information is needed. What spell or effect did he fail to make the saving throw against?
I assume he's in a room with an illusion that he's in a desert. if he "Believes" the illusion (i.e. failed his will save) then I would rule that as he walks he won't take actual steps and then will never reach the wall and hit it.
We are playing Council of Thieves and the PCs are in the Nessian Spiral, in the containment zone: all the rooms are enchanted to make Liebdaga believe he's in Hell, so the illusion spell is quite powerful. Yet the book says nothing more. Two members of the group passed the check and know it is nothing but a vast room.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
He would continue to simply walk around the room as the illusion would deceive him into steering around the room as his mind believed he was in a desert. To someone outside the room he would be wondering around aimlessly. The illusion would steer his mind and body in path that would never contact the wall.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
What it really comes down to is what type of illusion is it. If it is a figment or a glamer As both of these type create false sensations. A phantasm on the other hand is all in the targets mind. If the illusion is a figment or glamer he actually will walk into the wall. If it is a phantasm he thinks he walked into a desert, but may not have actually moved.
If it is a figment or glamer and he walks into the wall then no save is necessary. The bolded section makes that clear. If it is a phantasm then what ALLENDM is suggesting would happen.
A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.
Walking into the wall should qualify as proof it is not a real desert.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Walking into the wall should qualify as proof it is not a real desert.
That would be true in a world that didn't have actual invisible walls. Of course this would mean he'd be allowed to try to climb the wall. Either way I would say that the other characters should be able to tell him he's seeing an illusion though, which should give him more saving throws.
The real question is: Can the story move forward without him passing this saving throw? If not then I'd allow whatever creative solution they come up with to work. Having the game completely stall just because of bad dice rolls isn't fun, so if they think of a way through it I say go woth that.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's just a figment. It functions as Permanent Image if this is F27 of book 4. A couple things should tip off the character here. If he just keeps walking forward, he'll run into a wall. If he stops to try to pick up some sand, he won't actually be able to sink his hand into it or pick it up. If he pulls out a bow and tries to shoot one of the illusory creatures in the distance, he'll probably figure out that the sky is not the sky.
Otherwise, one of the characters who did pass can just hold his hand and walk him through it.
He was moving south and found he couldn'd go further (because of the wall, that's where he failed the second ST with bonus), so he followed the wall to the W and asked if he can climb the wall to avoid the spiked metal plants.
So, he shouldn't have rolled the second ST because of the solid wall and because his friends are telling him it isn't real, is that so?
I always figured that a PC trusts his friends (for example walking through a fake fire wall) but isn't capable of overcoming the illusion. This is why I asked.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hard to say, as a general rule of the thumb...illusions are pretty easy to figure out if you give them more than a cursory look.
But what does it mean to interact with an illusion? It can’t just mean looking at the illusion, as otherwise there would be no need to make the distinction, but drawing the line can be a bit tricky. Fortunately, the rules can help to define that difference. A creature that spends a move action to carefully study an illusion receives a Will saving throw to disbelieve that illusion, so that is a good benchmark from which to work.
Important note: It's not just he only gets two chances to figure it out. Every time he physically interacts with the illusion or studies it, he gets a Will save. Once his allies tell him it's an illusion, from then on whenever he makes that will save he gets a +4.
As for automatically overcoming the illusion, there's a lot of ways to trigger that but they require in depth thought. If he swings at the wall and chips a piece of it free then that would be pretty obvious. If he empties out some of his water skin and it doesn't soak into the sand. Trying to pick up some sand and discovering that the sand is a solid plane.
Thank you all, it's finally become clear.