An issue has come up in our last session where I was in an encounter and while moving to get in position to attack a foe, my character shouted to a friendly PC "Hey, come beside me to protect my back". My intention was to roleplay battle strategy, not to order around. My GM argued that this would normally be a Request action from the Diplomacy skill and should cost an action to do so but he would let it go for now as this was more of a roleplay perspective than an actual order.
So my question is this, what would constitute an actual "Request" action per RAW. Would each time I call for a strategy one liner constitute a request? It seems odd to me as this would take as much time as saying anything else...
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The whole Diplomacy section is written with NPCs in mind, not PCs.
No one can ever change the attitude of a player character with these skills. You can roleplay interactions with player characters, and even use Diplomacy results if the player wants a mechanical sense of how convincing or charming a character is, but players make the ultimate decisions about how their characters respond.
Granted, that text is missing from the "Request" subsection, but it still references "attitudes", which PCs don't have towards each other.
PCs do not use Diplomacy, Deception, etc on each other; that's left to pure roleplaying. What you did falls under
Speaking
As long as you can act, you can also speak. You don’t need to spend any type of action to speak, but because a round represents 6 seconds of time, you can usually speak at most a single sentence or so per round. Special uses of speech, such as attempting a Deception skill check to Lie, require spending actions and follow their own rules. All speech has the auditory trait. If you communicate in some way other than speech, other rules might apply. For instance, using sign language is visual instead of auditory.
I say you're in the clear. (In fact I'd say you're in the clear even if you were yelling to an NPC, whom you might actually Request things of sometimes, but your GM could argue the point for that one.)
|
PCs do not use Diplomacy, Deception, etc on each other; that's left to pure roleplaying. What you did falls under
Speaking
As long as you can act, you can also speak. You don’t need to spend any type of action to speak, but because a round represents 6 seconds of time, you can usually speak at most a single sentence or so per round. Special uses of speech, such as attempting a Deception skill check to Lie, require spending actions and follow their own rules. All speech has the auditory trait. If you communicate in some way other than speech, other rules might apply. For instance, using sign language is visual instead of auditory.I say you're in the clear. (In fact I'd say you're in the clear even if you were yelling to an NPC, whom you might actually Request things of sometimes, but your GM could argue the point for that one.)
Yea I would only require a Request from my players if the NPC wasn't a standard ally of the party. Like if it was a Guard you made Helpful earlier, then you all got caught up with some thieves, you could Request the guard to help you instead of deal with the thief he was going to try to apprehend. If it was an NPC Ally, like a pregen filling in for a PC, I would treat them as a PC for those purposes.
Noted, I see a few of you covering NPCs in comments. In the case of an npc, is there an official guideline on what constitute a request? I foresee occasion where this might occur in the future, more specifically with allied npc (fellow adventurer but run by de gm). It would be easier to argue with an official answer if this comes up. Is there a degree of friendship to where it would not constitute a request? I can't find anything in the rulebook.
|
|
You can only make a request of a creature that’s friendly or helpful to you.
The examples are myriad. I would suggest hammering out some guidelines with your GM before the next session so that everyone is on the same page.
Just to toss out an example that I would consider reasonable:
You just completed a quest for the local temple of Abadar, making the attendant priest friendly to you (but not helpful, because they're stingy), when your party is accosted by bandits! Your squishy wizard was dropped in the surprise round, and you have no clerics of your own. You can Make a Request of the priest who is standing right there to stabilize your party member with their magic, rather than fleeing to safety. Involving themself in the fight constitutes a risk, so the GM sets the DC as equal to their task level + 2. You succeed, the priest stabilizes your wizard, and for their efforts a bandit shoots them with a crossbow. You attempt again to Make a Request of the priest to stay and continue healing your party, but now that the priest is injured, the GM determines that the priest is too worried for their own life, and no amount of success will get them to stay.
|
|
If you have a GM NPC who is part of your adventuring group, then Make a Request isn't really suitable. You're all adventuring together. BUT, maybe the NPC has certain personality quirks like Belkar from OOTS. The GM might require you to Make a Request to get them to behave in civil society and not go about palming every coin purse they see.
Even with NPCs it's a bit awkward to reference Request rules.
I ask him to do X and fail, so now he can't do X even if it's the best option available? Or I have to be a stickler for phrasing so it doesn't seem like I care what they choose?
Sometimes, yes, you're requesting the ally to change their behavior or actions in a way out of the ordinary, but more often it's simply informing the other character of a situation or a (from your POV) helpful option.
(And such an interpretation smacks of rules idolatry...)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Even with NPCs it's a bit awkward to reference Request rules.
I ask him to do X and fail, so now he can't do X even if it's the best option available? Or I have to be a stickler for phrasing so it doesn't seem like I care what they choose?Sometimes, yes, you're requesting the ally to change their behavior or actions in a way out of the ordinary, but more often it's simply informing the other character of a situation or a (from your POV) helpful option.
(And such an interpretation smacks of rules idolatry...)
As a GM I would only ask the party to Make a Request if they weren't already going to do it, roleplaying it as the NPC being visibly or vocally unsure about what they're being asked to do. It would play out like this:
Player: I ask the Priest to help us!
GM: Even though he likes you guys, he seems like he's about to bolt as soon as he gets the chance, you'll have to convince him to stay if you want his help, which would take an action.
Player: That's fine, without his help we're all done for anyway. Should I roll Diplomacy?
Basically, if you had plans to have the NPC stay, there would be no reason to have your players waste an action making a request of them.