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There was something in a gencon panel about it being either 1-2 weeks after gencon to not have all the tables run with new rulings... then nothing.
The system isn't old enough for it to coast without errata :( I hope it comes soon.
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Sometime after the Space Colony on Europa becomes the 57th US state... :P
Seriously though, as the Core Rulebook Errata: Round 1 came out Wednesday, October 30, 2019 we're quickly closing in on a year since then. Just tackling a single question a month would have netted us 12 answers. They seem to have plenty of time to show up in other not-here places [I keep hearing go watch this or that video to find out something they said]... Even 1 zoom call a month could handle 1 question a month
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It's been radio silence since they announced it would be released right after GenCon. I understand there's a pandemic going on and some staff turnover, but the lack of communication and updates doesn't feel good. Even a "hey guys, we're still working on it to make sure we get it right" would go a long way for me. With the Humble Bundle recently selling out hard copies of the CRB, I figured there would be pressure to do a second printing of the CRB and this would drive the need to get the errata done sooner rather than later and out the door. Just a little surprised it's taking so long.
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Even a "hey guys, we're still working on it to make sure we get it right" would go a long way for me.
Me too. I think everyone can understand right now isn't the best of conditions and if they just said 'do to various issues, we have pushed back errata' and I think most people would be fine with it. What doesn't make me happy is 'it'll be out before APG' and then crickets...
And if they finally DO say something, I hope it's here and not on some other platform so I have to hear about it second hand.
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Yeah, it sucks severely it isn't out yet, but to act like they're just never going to put out the errata is a little silly.
Some people are indeed saying that in this thread.
And what would they say? "We're wrking on it"? Obviously they're working on it, it isn't out yet. If they weren't working on it, it would be out.
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Some people are indeed saying that in this thread.
Have they? I just see grumbling over the glacial pace and the lack of communication on what the problem is.
And what would they say? "We're wrking on it"? Obviously they're working on it, it isn't out yet.
Because it's NOT obvious maybe? They make twitch videos, they make books and adventures, they start a playtest... I haven't seen anything obvious that tells me it's in the works. If the APG didn't drop when they said, they'd at least tell us 'it'll be delayed to' and/or 'do to printing/server issues...' or something. Should we get less communication because it's about a product we've already paid for?
Should we get less communication because it's about a product we've already paid for?
Yep. Or, rather, we should get less communication because it's about a product that's already out.
The new stuff is interesting to a greater number of people, and it's what most directly gets them their money to keep making new things and supporting the old things.
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Should we get less communication because it's about a product we've already paid for?Yep. Or, rather, we should get less communication because it's about a product that's already out.
While I do agree, it takes a few seconds to share an update with your community.
Everybody will be happy with no effort at all.
Heh, that seems optimistic to me.
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Should we get less communication because it's about a product we've already paid for?Yep. Or, rather, we should get less communication because it's about a product that's already out.
The new stuff is interesting to a greater number of people, and it's what most directly gets them their money to keep making new things and supporting the old things.
See, I don't agree as lack of updates on core material can reduce interest in the system as a whole. I know I haven't bought new material lately and part of it is the errata. If you push out new content based on the non-errata'd core, then you get into a situation that when the core gets fixed, it cascades into other books based off it needing fixed too...
I'd like to know it's at least important enough to spend a few seconds on an update. I understand the need to keep cash flowing but we aren't talking something that takes less effort than getting your daily coffee in the morning...
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My bet here is that they initially hoped to have it out before the APG but it got pushed due to staff changes, cutbacks, and then eventually rescheduled at a later date once the person who they hired to work on the FAQ and Errata (This only happened like a month ago IIRC) is fully up to speed and can start chugging away at this.
Typically it takes three full months to get ANYONE in a professional field to be up to the prociency required to really self direct and fill the shoes they've been given so it's not at all surprising that the release hasn't dropped yet, whoever it was that took the job is still probably slowly leaning into their duties and is working to still document everything that is problematic enough to warrant clarification into a neat and easily referenced list that will then need to be raked over the coals by the design team over the course of a few weeks worth of team meetings. After that comes agreeing on the precise wording and researching the impact the changes will have on non CRB materials and then getting it all into the layout teams hands at which point it bounces back to the design team to refine/reduce wording to make the wordcount function with the existing layout of the book since some changes that might even add only four of five words can push a whole chapter one page back if they don't do "trimming" elsewhere.
My bet here is that they initially hoped to have it out before the APG but it got pushed due to staff changes, cutbacks, and then eventually rescheduled at a later date once the person who they hired to work on the FAQ and Errata (This only happened like a month ago IIRC) is fully up to speed and can start chugging away at this.
While I agree with your whole post, I'd have to wonder what was done before the new hire. They have been talking about errata 2 arriving since the start of the year so I can't imagine that a new hire would be tossed into a situation that they are starting from scratch. it's even more worrying if nothing was done on it in all this time.
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Great points and I most certainly hope that they inherited a fair amount of this type of documentation but from what I understand there wasn't ANYBODY on staff prior to their hire who really had that as part of their main wheelhouse. Because of that, I imagine the FAQ and Errata stuff was probably spread like a thin layer across several Paizo employees who otherwise have other responsibilities.
I doubt they were left trying to shore things up and start from scratch on their own but if you have the info you need on 45 different notepads (most of which are saved in a locked building HQ on computers which are all individually password protected) and files of varying type and veracity with a bunch of individual overlap it can make things very tricky to really get it all boiled down to just one master list espescially if nobody was really "Taking it seriously" as their main responsiblity beforehand.
Perosnally, I am eager to see the update as well and I think perhaps a Blog post for/by the new FAQ/Errata and Community Manager person would be in order so we can get to know them and understand their role, even if they're only just begun to settle into the tasks in earnest recently.
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Everybody will be happy with no effort at all.
You must be new here.
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If you choose to ignore your previous products in favor of always pushing forth new stuff, without looking back and fixing errors but simply keep pilling more of them (due to new books dy default having some of them as well) then it starts a downward spiral for the trust your customers have for the quality support you are offering.Should we get less communication because it's about a product we've already paid for?Yep. Or, rather, we should get less communication because it's about a product that's already out.
The new stuff is interesting to a greater number of people, and it's what most directly gets them their money to keep making new things and supporting the old things.
Honest question---do we have any idea what portion of PF2's customer base will even notice released errata/faqs/updates? I'd think a very large fraction just buy the darn books (maybe a subscription) w/o ever paying any attention to the forums, the blog, or other channels for announcements.
Honest question---do we have any idea what portion of PF2's customer base will even notice released errata/faqs/updates? I'd think a very large fraction just buy the darn books (maybe a subscription) w/o ever paying any attention to the forums, the blog, or other channels for announcements.
I think they WILL as errata will get integrated into the online resources. I see a LOT of people referencing them even if they are using their own books: they collect everything in one place so if you're looking for spells, feats, equipment are you pulling out a pile of books or going to archives of nethys and clicking on the collated list from every book? If you do use the internet, there is a note on every errata'd element from the first errata so if interested they can see it and even of they aren't interested they'll end up using the errata'd material.
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IIRC PF2 Kingmaker took far more work than expected. I can see this wrecking havoc on their schedule when added to everything else.
And this is a product that people paid for a long time ago and have not seen yet, so Paizo putting it as highest priority would be really respectful of their customer base.
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IIRC PF2 Kingmaker took far more work than expected. I can see this wrecking havoc on their schedule when added to everything else.
And this is a product that people paid for a long time ago and have not seen yet, so Paizo putting it as highest priority would be really respectful of their customer base.
There's a lot of things it could be. But they don't talk about it, so we don't know.
I'm fine if there's never errata. What I'd like is more and better communication.
Honest question---do we have any idea what portion of PF2's customer base will even notice released errata/faqs/updates? I'd think a very large fraction just buy the darn books (maybe a subscription) w/o ever paying any attention to the forums, the blog, or other channels for announcements.For starters, every PFS player? What percentage is that?
Dunno. If someone told me it was a majority, I expect I'd believe them. If someone told me it's 10%, I'd believe that. I don't know how many people are in PFS or how big the customer base is.
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I know there will always be people meant to complain about anything ( if that was your point ), but it has nothing to do with keep in touch with a community.Everybody will be happy with no effort at all.You must be new here.
The last time this was tried through constant nagging to do so “we’re still here, no updates yet” ended up with a large amount of raging at Paizo staff with little gain, so no, not even remotely everybody will be happy.
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Maybe it's because it's the Age of Lost Omens, so prophecies about when Errata will happen just don't work?
/s /s /s /S /S/ S
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Nobody is "acting like it's never coming out" but it is embarrassingly late and there's no communication on the matter.
By what metric is it "embarrassingly late"?
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By what metric is it "embarrassingly late"?
Nobody is "acting like it's never coming out" but it is embarrassingly late and there's no communication on the matter.
the metric of they should be embarrassed by their performance. which they have met, having missed their stated deadline twice and saying nothing on the matter.
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the metric of they should be embarrassed by their performance
"They should" is almost as good a marker as "once upon a time". Both indicate that what follows is a fantasy created by the story teller that is not intended to describe the real world.
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"once upon a time"
Once upon a time I heard tell of errata. I remember my grandpappy telling me stories about how in his day, they got told it was coming soon... He's still staring at the computer, waiting for that errata to some...
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the metric of they should be embarrassed by their performance. which they have met, having missed their stated deadline twice and saying nothing on the matter.
The statements about errata release have been estimates, not deadlines, and defining what someone should be "embarrassed by" based solely on your expectations of them is more than a little rude.
You have no idea what internal situation has led to this estimate slipping, and they don't owe anyone an explanation for it having done so.
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the metric of they should be embarrassed by their performance. which they have met, having missed their stated deadline twice and saying nothing on the matter.The statements about errata release have been estimates, not deadlines, and defining what someone should be "embarrassed by" based solely on your expectations of them is more than a little rude.
You have no idea what internal situation has led to this estimate slipping, and they don't owe anyone an explanation for it having done so.
Embarrassment is entirely based on others expectations, and if they don't owe us an explanation I guess we don't owe them any more money either.
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See, I don't agree as lack of updates on core material can reduce interest in the system as a whole. I know I haven't bought new material lately and part of it is the errata.
If Paizo's errata schedule is such an issue that it is preventing you from purchasing new gaming product, how have you existed within the tabletop RPG hobby up until now? Other companies go years between publication and errata without so much as a how do you do.
I'd like to know it's at least important enough to spend a few seconds on an update. I understand the need to keep cash flowing but we aren't talking something that takes less effort than getting your daily coffee in the morning...
How exactly did you come by the estimate that updating the errata takes less effort than getting coffee? Is it from the experience of being a publishing concern and actively providing errata for product you have published? Or is it purely speculative?
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Embarrassment is entirely based on others expectations
Sure, but when you're defining that someone SHOULD embarrassed for not meeting your expectations you are saying that your individual expectations are more important than any other group or individuals concerns. Which is patently untrue.
and if they don't owe us an explanation I guess we don't owe them any more money either.
If your big play is to walk away from a company because they don't release errata as quickly as you like, despite the fact that they release errata both quicker and more frequently than almost every other TTRPG publisher - be my guest. I think the only person who'll be hurt by that is you.