The Master's Name (Wonderous Item) - How long does the summon last?


Rules Questions


Good day to you all!

The title says it all really. When the command word is used to summon the creature, how long does it last for? It doesn't say but would it be until banished/killed or for 9 rounds (as summon monster is a round a level and the wonderous item is CL9).

Full text description below for those interested:

The Master's Name
Source Lost Treasures pg. 41
Aura moderate conjuration and enchantment; CL 9th
Slot none; Price 25,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
If the user opens this vial while chanting prayers to the Master of Masters, the sand inside this crystal vial pours out to form an elaborate, multicolored mandala in the symbol of Irori’s rebus. The vial never runs empty, but pours out only enough sand to craft a single mandala at a time.

This item has two functions. Once per day, the owner can meditate while focusing on the mandala and ponder the great mysteries of the universe. After 1 hour of uninterrupted meditation, the owner recovers a number of ki points equal to half his total ki pool. The ki points recovered in this way are temporary, and go away if the user rests or meditates for 8 hours to recover. Additionally, the owner of this item cannot use it to replenish ki points in excess of his total ki pool.

Once per week, when a command word is spoken, the owner of this item can open the vial and pour out the contents, which coalesce to form a pavbagha (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Gods 295) marked with the Master’s Rebus. The pavbagha fights alongside the owner of the vial, protecting her to the best of its ability.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, calm emotions, owl's wisdom, summon monster IV, creator must have the ki pool class feature; Cost 12,500 gp

Liberty's Edge

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It doesn't say that it cast a summon spell, nor that the creature is summoned. It theory the pavbagha isn't in any summoning list (it is not listed in the Inner Sea Gods as an alternate summons for the summoning spells).

So there isn't any indication of how long it will stay.

Personally I would say it would stay as long as needed to complete a single task: fighting in one battle, teaching one of Irori lessons, telling a parable, guiding a single meditation session. At most 1 hour (based on the time needed to meditate on the mandala when recovering Ki points). But it is a personal opinion as a GM, based on the price of the item and the strength of the creature. RAW there is no indication of how long it will stay.


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What Diego Rossi says is sensible.
I could also see the creature staying indefinitely as long as it isn't destroyed, with the limitation that only one can be in existence at a time from a given vial as well as I could see the creature staying around for only a few minutes. 25k gold for a CR4 pet that can be called back from the dead once a week doesn't feel overpowered to me.

Liberty's Edge

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Agénor wrote:

What Diego Rossi says is sensible.

I could also see the creature staying indefinitely as long as it isn't destroyed, with the limitation that only one can be in existence at a time from a given vial as well as I could see the creature staying around for only a few minutes. 25k gold for a CR4 pet that can be called back from the dead once a week doesn't feel overpowered to me.

The main function is the recovery of Ki points, not the creature. And giving a price to that is hard.

Permanent items that summon creatures all have very high prices for their combat utility. Some have nice off combat utilities, but those generally shine if the summoned creature lasts for a reasonably long time.

For the level at which you can afford to spend 25,000 gp for an item that isn't one key items, a pavbagha isn't very useful in combat, but it has some nice skill and a religious significance, so it can do the role of the "wise teacher" if it last long enough.


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Yep, which is why I don't see it as a problem that the summoned creature would potentially stay indefinitely.


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Is the creature even a "summoned creature"? The vial is simply conjuration without a subschool, and the effect sounds more like creation than summoning to me.

Quote:
Creation: A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates. If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.

You manipulate the matter of the sand to create a creature. If we're being technical, then it's neither summoning nor creation, because neither is listed, but the description is a lot closer to one than the other.

Liberty's Edge

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Melkiador wrote:

Is the creature even a "summoned creature"? The vial is simply conjuration without a subschool, and the effect sounds more like creation than summoning to me.

Quote:
Creation: A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates. If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.
You manipulate the matter of the sand to create a creature. If we're being technical, then it's neither summoning nor creation, because neither is listed, but the description is a lot closer to one than the other.

It is more like a Conjuration (calling) like Minor Planar Ally. Inner Sea Gods list the pavbagha between the Divine Servitors in the table at page 274, and on page 273 it says:

"Divine Servitors
Deities often play favorites and have little tolerance for half measures. As such, their servants are beings perfectly suited to fighting the wars, extolling the philosophies, and furthering the goals of their divine masters.
Some are soldiers bolstering divine armies, some are envoys to the mortal realm, some are explorers that might be encountered even in the most unexpected corner of the multiverse, but each is a perfect manifestation of a deity’s will. While many of these servitors are unique species in their own right, some might be special breeds of races associated with particular deities. Whatever place they might occupy in a greater hierarchy,all divine servitors are CR 4 and have 6 or fewer Hit Dice, making them useful candidates to be summoned with lesser planar ally"

Calling a pavbagha doesn't require the caster to pay anything (but we can consider the limit to 1 use/week a form of payment), but it is reasonable to think that the pavbagha will do a single task each time the flask is used.

On the other hand, the flask description limit what the pavbagha will do: he pavbagha fights alongside the owner of the vial, protecting her to the best of its ability.

If the pavbagha is limited only to fighting, its usefulness is limited, a pity as it is more interesting as an NPC capable of thought, and conversation.

The item description doesn't say anything about what happens if the pavbagha is killed.


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I would hazard a guess that it would last as long as a 9th level casting of Summon Monster IV. That is the caster level and spell referenced in the creation notes. So 9 rounds.

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