i dont mean worth it as in you have the perfect situation
i mean worth it over attacking 3 times in a round.
thats what i want, i want my action investment (cantrips) to be at least equal to attacking 3x, and i want my finite resource and action investment (spell slots) to be my burst option.
thats what i want out of spell strike.
i currently like that i can apply it to any type of strike action, thats great.
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We have a few options.
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Option 1: Discharge on miss and improve the spell. (Thank you to Syries on the PF discord for this one)
Striking Spell - Free Action, Metamagic, Concentrate
Frequency once per round
You drastically alter a spell to combine it with a martial attack. If the next action you use is to Cast a Spell that can target one creature or object, instead of casting it as normal, you place its magic into one melee weapon you’re wielding or into your body to use with an unarmed attack. If you attempt a Strike with the melee weapon or unarmed attack that is the receptacle for the spell, the spell is discharged, regardless of the outcome of the Strike and affecting only the target of the Strike. The spell still requires its normal spell attack roll or saving throw, but you don’t increase your multiple attack penalty until after attempting both the discharging Strike and the spell attack roll. If the spell requires a spell attack roll, you gain a circumstance bonus to the attack equal to the item bonus of your receptacle weapon or unarmed attack. If the spell requires a saving throw and the Strike was successful, the spell's DC increases by 1. If you don’t expend the stored spell with a Strike before the end of your next turn, it is lost and dissipates harmlessly. The same thing happens if you take the Striking Spell action again or if the weapon is used for a non-melee Strike (such as a thrown weapon Strike). A spell stored with Striking Spell can’t be discharged by anyone but the caster.
At 7th level you get a feature called "Spell Potency" which alters Striking Spell such that the spell DC increases by 1 on a fail or critical failure as well.
At 15th level you get a feature called "Greater Spell Potency" which alters striking spell such that it increases the DC by 2 instead of 1.
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Option 2: Make it function like Eldritch Shot
This would focus the magus around spell attacks, but would probably need to include the text "any strikes made while imbued gain the fortune trait" to prevent true striking.
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Option 3: Give a benefit while your weapon is imbued.
Make the Magus' attacks deal a little bit of extra damage (scaling the same as the swashbuckler's precise strike maybe, so 2-6) while a spell is imbued in their weapon. Allow them to discharge the spell on a hit if they choose (still requiring the attack roll/save to land). Strikes with the weapon extend the duration the spell remains in until the end of your next turn.
This might make them use Striking Spell exactly once, I think they'd need better accuracy with their spell to consider discharging it before they're sure the end of combat is soon. You might need to boost their spell proficiency (e.g. to 9/17), give them key ability int and allow use of Int to hit while the spell is imbued.
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Option 4: Give them multiple combat-useful focus cantrips and focus spells, some of which are one action.
This would make the economy on striking spell much better, and if slide was made a baseline feature, then you wouldn't be losing much for casting said spells.
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1) Remove Magus Potency as a Focus Spell, and make it a constant ability that is active when the Magus has a spell imbued. Apply the bonus to both the weapon attack (not stacking with weapon runes, of course) and the spell attack (where you wouldn't have runes). Spell DCs are fine IMO.
2) Give the class another baseline Focus Spell that does damage: more than a cantrip, less than a spell slot. You can even do something different for each Synthesis. The point is having a rechargable (but not free, as it competes with other Focus uses) option that makes Spell Striking better once per combat, without making you weep if it misses.
We have a few options.
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Option 1: Discharge on miss and improve the spell. (Thank you to Syries on the PF discord for this one)
Striking Spell - Free Action, Metamagic, Concentrate
Frequency once per round
You drastically alter a spell to combine it with a martial attack. If the next action you use is to Cast a Spell that can target one creature or object, instead of casting it as normal, you place its magic into one melee weapon you’re wielding or into your body to use with an unarmed attack. If you attempt a Strike with the melee weapon or unarmed attack that is the receptacle for the spell, the spell is discharged, regardless of the outcome of the Strike and affecting only the target of the Strike. The spell still requires its normal spell attack roll or saving throw, but you don’t increase your multiple attack penalty until after attempting both the discharging Strike and the spell attack roll. If the spell requires a spell attack roll, you gain a circumstance bonus to the attack equal to the item bonus of your receptacle weapon or unarmed attack. If the spell requires a saving throw and the Strike was successful, the spell's DC increases by 1. If you don’t expend the stored spell with a Strike before the end of your next turn, it is lost and dissipates harmlessly. The same thing happens if you take the Striking Spell action again or if the weapon is used for a non-melee Strike (such as a thrown weapon Strike). A spell stored with Striking Spell can’t be discharged by anyone but the caster.At 7th level you get a feature called "Spell Potency" which alters Striking Spell such that the spell DC increases by 1 on a fail or critical failure as well.
At 15th level you get a feature called "Greater Spell Potency" which alters striking spell such that it increases the DC by 2 instead of 1.
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Option 2: Make it function like Eldritch Shot
This would focus the magus around spell attacks, but would probably need to include the text "any strikes made while imbued gain the fortune...
Really digging these options, especially option 1
I think that option 1 is a bit too convoluted, I am not fond of having branching conditions for the rolls like "if you miss your first roll you still roll the second one, at X level when you do it you roll the second one with x bonus, at Y level if you miss you roll with Z modifier".
The idea of increasing the DCs at higher level has merit though, I think it'd be better as a crit effect to increase the dc of saves spells by a flat number that would increase at you gain levels (in a core feature, like it starts as a +2DC, then +3 at level 11 and +5 at level 15) than just having it be a failure bump to crit fail of a save. That's too powerful and a fighter MC into magus just to get it then into wizard would be a better magus than the magus because of their higher melee rolls.
Making the crit effect a smaller bonus, that increases with Magus level would avoid that issue entirely, and make it less swingy.
Overall I'm more for option 2 equivalent, just make it work like eldritch shot (maybe with better action economy since you're in melee) or like a Spell Storing rune, just that instead of a flat 30 DC for saves, it'll be your own Spell DC.
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I think that option 1 is a bit too convoluted, I am not fond of having branching conditions for the rolls like "if you miss your first roll you still roll the second one, at X level when you do it you roll the second one with x bonus, at Y level if you miss you roll with Z modifier".
The idea of increasing the DCs at higher level has merit though, I think it'd be better as a crit effect to increase the dc of saves spells by a flat number that would increase at you gain levels (in a core feature, like it starts as a +2DC, then +3 at level 11 and +5 at level 15) than just having it be a failure bump to crit fail of a save. That's too powerful and a fighter MC into magus just to get it then into wizard would be a better magus than the magus because of their higher melee rolls.
Making the crit effect a smaller bonus, that increases with Magus level would avoid that issue entirely, and make it less swingy.
Overall I'm more for option 2 equivalent, just make it work like eldritch shot (maybe with better action economy since you're in melee) or like a Spell Storing rune, just that instead of a flat 30 DC for saves, it'll be your own Spell DC.
It's a little bit convoluted but essentially it boiled down to:
Syries wanted it to provide a bonus to the spell to overcome the magus' otherwise non key attribute and lower DCs. For spell attack rolls, this presented no issues, but for save DCs, having it go off with a +1 DC starting at level 1 was a bit of an issue because that meant at level 5 and 6 you'd have a higher DC than a fullcaster... which would feel a bit terrible for them.
Hence he decided to split it into 3 tiers. Tier 1 (level 1-6) where you must hit with the attack to get a bonus to the DC. At tier 2 (level 7-14), full spellcasters are either a full proficiency tier ahead of you, or stat ahead of you, so giving it +1 to the DC all the time is fine. At tier 3 (15+), full spellcasters are always a full proficiency ahead of you, and starting at level 17 also stat ahead of you, so +2 to the DC is fine.
Personally I would change Striking Spell to this:
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Striking Spell
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Concentrate, Magus, Metamagic, Fortune
Frequency: once per round
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You drastically alter a spell to combine it with a martial attack. If the next action you use is to cast a spell that can target one creature or object, instead of casting it as normal, you forgo any somatic components and place its magic into one melee weapon you are wielding or into your body to use with an unarmed attack.
If you hit with a melee Strike using the receptacle for the spell, the spell is discharged, affecting only the target you hit. If the spell required a spell attack roll, the target is hit. If the spell required a saving throw, the saving throw is conducted as normal.
If you don’t expend the stored spell with a Strike before the end of your next turn, it is lost and dissipates harmlessly. The same thing happens if you take the Striking Spell action again or if the weapon is used for a non-melee Strike (such as a thrown weapon Strike). A spell stored with Striking Spell can’t be discharged by anyone but the caster.
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However, I'd be tempted to also do the following.
I would give the Magus a Spell Combat Stance that allows you to cast a spell and strike in the same round without a Multi Attack Penalty.
Remove the ability to forgoe Somatic components and provide it through a feat or upon level up. Really I just added the freedom from Somatic components as it fits within the fantasy of a Magus. I'd be entirely fine with it being unlocked later or it requiring feat investment.
For the class's dedication I would make the effects of Striking Spell last until the end of the turn it was cast. This should ensure fighters don't become better at Striking Spell than Magus, they may hit more often in the first turn but they'll waste more slots than the Magus does. To that end the Magus would be the more consistent caster.
You could also make a spell potency feat tree or features that gives a penalty to the target creatures Saving Throws against Striking Spell. I think staggering this penalty makes the most sense.
I think that option 1 is a bit too convoluted, I am not fond of having branching conditions for the rolls like "if you miss your first roll you still roll the second one, at X level when you do it you roll the second one with x bonus, at Y level if you miss you roll with Z modifier".
The idea of increasing the DCs at higher level has merit though, I think it'd be better as a crit effect to increase the dc of saves spells by a flat number that would increase at you gain levels (in a core feature, like it starts as a +2DC, then +3 at level 11 and +5 at level 15) than just having it be a failure bump to crit fail of a save. That's too powerful and a fighter MC into magus just to get it then into wizard would be a better magus than the magus because of their higher melee rolls.
Making the crit effect a smaller bonus, that increases with Magus level would avoid that issue entirely, and make it less swingy.
Overall I'm more for option 2 equivalent, just make it work like eldritch shot (maybe with better action economy since you're in melee) or like a Spell Storing rune, just that instead of a flat 30 DC for saves, it'll be your own Spell DC.
It's a little bit convoluted but essentially it boiled down to:
Syries wanted it to provide a bonus to the spell to overcome the magus' otherwise non key attribute and lower DCs. For spell attack rolls, this presented no issues, but for save DCs, having it go off with a +1 DC starting at level 1 was a bit of an issue because that meant at level 5 and 6 you'd have a higher DC than a fullcaster... which would feel a bit terrible for them.
Hence he decided to split it into 3 tiers. Tier 1 (level 1-6) where you must hit with the attack to get a bonus to the DC. At tier 2 (level 7-14), full spellcasters are either a full proficiency tier ahead of you, or stat ahead of you, so giving it +1 to the DC all the time is fine. At tier 3 (15+), full spellcasters are always a full proficiency ahead of you, and starting at level 17 also stat...
Hm yes this is easier to understand like that.
Tho the spell hitting even if the spell Strike doesn't feels a bit weird to me. For Spell Combat it's fine, but for Spell Strike... xD
Somatic component gets replaced by a Strike is a must imo. So Strike+Cast a Spell as a 2-action activity. It counts as two attacks for MAP. The Spell lands if the Strike lands, but the Spell can never crit. Striking Spell gains the Fortune trait. The weapon stays charged until the end of the next turn.
Slide Casting is removed or made a very high level class Feat.
Sustaining Steel is made available for all melee weapons.
New Synthethis: Roaring Spell. If the Strike delivered during Striking Spell crits, the spell is a crit as well. This only works for Attack spells.
is the idea that we can all move when we cast? because being unable to move when i use spell strike would make me kinda sad.
My personal take would be:
Spellstrike (Free Action)
Concentrate, Magus, Metamagic Fortune
Frequency: once per round
Trigger: You begin to Cast a Spell that targets at least 1 creature Effect: You drastically alter a spell to combine it with a martial attack. Instead of casting it as normal, you place its magic into one melee weapon you’re wielding or into your body to use with an unarmed attack. If you hit with a melee Strike using the receptacle for the
spell, the spell is discharged. The target is automatically subject to the spell. If the spell required an attack roll, the target is hit. If the spell required a saving throw, the target takes a –2 status penalty to its saving throw instead. If you don't hit the target with a Strike before the end of your next turn, the spell is lost and dissipates harmlessly. The same thing happens if you take the Spellstrike action again or if the weapon is used for a non-melee Strike (such as a thrown weapon Strike).
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It's good though having it take a whole 3 actions is really cumbersome.
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Thoughts that I have been kicking around and want to finally put down on paper(ish) for others to review and critique:
Instead of automatic discharge of the spell, make it cost a reaction. That way the character can decide whether to discharge the spell or keep it stored for a better opportunity later. Meaning that they don't have to have some backup weapon to use if they want to make Strike attacks at lower MAP.
I haven't nailed down exactly what I want for the mechanics of discharging the spell. There are a bunch of threads on here already that debate things about that. Which ever one is decided on can be placed here.
Allow the spell to stay stored longer. Probably up to a minute. After that, if it hasn't been discharged, the energy dissipates harmlessly.
At any point, the character can cast the spell stored in the weapon just like casting a spell from a staff. It takes the normal number of actions (yes, again) and has the normal range and target for the spell being cast.
Give a minor static benefit to the weapon while it has a spell stored in it. Probably a form of Bespell Strikes that lasts for as long as the spell is stored. Probably one that does less damage though. Maybe spell level (minimum 1 for cantrips) damage instead. That brings it more in line with the benefits of Energize Strikes.
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My thinking:
You don't as much feel like you have 'lost' a spell that you cast from a spell slot into your weapon. You have 'spent' it certainly. It will be gone at the end of the combat one way or another. But you still have control of when and how it gets used.
You now have the ability and some incentive for casting a spell into your weapon and leaving it there. You can target a weakness for the entire battle. There is the tactical intimidation of threatening a strike + spell damage in one hit that you could use to bully intelligent enemies with.
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I put up an idea of my own about a week ago, and I've got no problems posting it here as well:
Imbue Weapon
1 action
Concentration, Open, Metamagic, Magus
You channel the power of your spellcasting into your weapon, sacrificing raw power for arcane finesse. Choose a spell gained from your Magus class; the power of that spell is now channeled into your weapon. While your weapon is imbued with a spell, your weapon's damage type changes based on the school of the spell in question, as the Bespell Weapon feat. The effects of Imbue Weapon last for one minute, after which the spell is lost and spell slot (if using a non-cantrip, non-focus spell) is expended. For the purposes of weaknesses and resistances, combine the damage type of Imbue Weapon with damage of the same type from other sources applied to the weapon (such as a Flaming property rune) before applying weaknesses and resistances.Spellstrike
2 actions
Attack, Magus, Flourish, Finisher
Requirements: You are wielding a weapon you have used for Imbue Weapon.
With a focused attack you unleash the full force of your spell in a burst of magical power. Make a Strike. If the Strike hits you unleash the spell used for Imbue Weapon on the creature you struck. If the spell requires a Spell Attack roll it uses the same MAP as the Strike, but gains a +2 bonus. If the spell requires a save, the target takes a -2 penalty. The spell can only target the creature you struck, but additional effects (such as the Acid Splash splash damage) still occur. Afterwards the spell is expended and the effects of Imbue Weapon end.
A bit wordy, but I think that between the tags and the consistent benefits with periodic burst, it would make the ability more worthwhile. Getting a sustained benefit from charging your spell with a weapon also helps the Magus get more bang for its buck with limited spell slots.
Or we could make the Discharging a reaction.
Build the Magus around different reactions they can take when they have a spell "loaded" and you have to choose when it's most optimal to use it. On a successful Strike ? Or save it for an Attack of Opportunity ? Or maybe to attempt to deflect a Strike against you?
Or maybe to attempt to deflect a Strike against you?
Ohh... Spell parry into counterspell. If you have a spell cast into the weapon and are using spell parry, you can counterspell an incoming spell (normal requirements for matching spells typical for counterspell attempts).
I was rather thinking of doing a counter strike against a strike, if you beat their attack roll, their strike fails. If your critically succeed, their strike fails and they are subject to the spell you had into your weapon.
I was rather thinking of doing a counter strike against a strike, if you beat their attack roll, their strike fails. If your critically succeed, their strike fails and they are subject to the spell you had into your weapon.
It is an interesting idea. But neither Fighter nor Swashbuckler can do anything like that. I would think those classes would get something like that first.
Plus, this has the scent of opposed rolls. Which are gone. And good riddance.