Rogue - weapon trick

[HumbleGamer]

Hi,

I see that now ( maybe it was like that since the beginning, and I simply don't remember it) a rogue can make use of the backstab ability even with unarmed attacks.

However, I see that weapon trick lvl 5 perk just work with weapon ( even if it also states that you get expert proficiency with unarmed attacks).

Am I reading it correctly?

[Nefreet]

"Backstab"?

Unarmed Attacks aren't weapons, so they don't benefit from things like a Rogue's Sneak Attack, or their Level 5 Weapon Tricks.

[thenobledrake]

Sneak attack explicitly says "an agile or finesse unarmed attack" is one of the things to which it can add its extra damage.

Weapon Tricks, however, does not grant critical specialization effects to unarmed attacks because it is specifically worded for weapons (except for the gaining expert proficiency portion of the feature).

[HumbleGamer]

Yeah I thought the same.

Thanks.

[Nefreet]

O.O

That's from the recent errata?

[Gisher]

Nefreet wrote:

O.O

That's from the recent errata?

It's from the CRB.

CRB, p. 181 wrote:

Sneak Attack

...
If you Strike a creature that has the flat-footed condition (page 620) with an agile or finesse melee weapon, an agile or finesse unarmed attack, or a ranged weapon attack, you deal an extra 1d6 precision damage.

[HammerJack]

You may be thinking of the Thief racket, rather than Sneak Attack, as the thing that doesn't work with unarmed?

[Gisher]

HumbleGamer wrote:

Yeah I thought the same.

Thanks.

If your unarmed attacks are in the Brawling weapon group, the Monk class feat Brawling Focus will give you the critical specialization effects. Monk Multiclass or the Martial Artist archetype can get you access at 4th level.

[Gisher]

I just did a quick rundown of the unarmed attacks in the various books. Except for the ones in the Character Guide, they all seem to be in the Brawling group. So taking Brawling Focus would seem to work in most cases.

[Nefreet]

HammerJack wrote:

You may be thinking of the Thief racket, rather than Sneak Attack, as the thing that doesn't work with unarmed?

That's... probably it. I do play a Thief, and I remember not wanting to go unarmed with him early on.

[Master of None]

HumbleGamer wrote:

However, I see that weapon trick lvl 5 perk just work with weapon ( even if it also states that you get expert proficiency with unarmed attacks).

Am I reading it correctly?

You are reading it correctly but luckily it looks like this has been addressed in the errata:

Changes to All Classes for Unarmed Attack Proficiency and Benefits wrote:

Any class feature that improves the proficiency rank or grants the critical specialization effect access for simple weapons or a specific set of weapons, that ability also grants that benefit for unarmed attacks.

[Zero the Nothing]

Master of None wrote:

Any class feature that improves the proficiency rank or grants the critical specialization effect access for simple weapons or a specific set of weapons, that ability also grants that benefit for unarmed attacks.

Oh damn, I hadn't seen this! Thank you, Master of None.