Hi all,
I'm new to Pathfinder. I'd like to play Pathfinder.
Gasp
But I've never played it as a player. This hasn't stopped me with systems I've run in the past, but when it comes to Society Play (the thing that's catching my attention), things feel different, probably because I haven't run public "convention style" games before, where you could have a whole table full of players who you haven't interacted with before and who you have to run for "rules as written".
My question(s) to y'all: How much knowledge of the game system is expected of a Society GM, and are new players even welcome to jump straight into GMing?
(Feel free to just answer what questions you feel like, I'm mainly interested in that first one above me. The rest are just details.)
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How many of you that have GM'd for Society games did so before playing in one? How about before playing a PC in Pathfinder period?
How many of you had prior GMing experience in Pathfinder? What was the biggest change you had to make in how you approach Society games from your regular games?
What turns a new player into someone who's ready to GM a Society game?
Face to face and play by post, does one style lend itself better to a new GM?
And, lastly, how did y'all fare running your first Society game?
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Bit wordy this, sorry, but I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts.
Sincerely yours,
Some guy who just wants a star
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GMing is a skill. It is not something that anyone can just jump into.
This said, GMing between systems is not significantly different. Once someone has the basic skills of table management, the whole "how the rules operate" is not difficult to add to the top.
But it is important for the GM to understand the underlying rules, in this case 2e. Society does add some more "rules" but in my experience, not a lot more, especially for 2e.
I personally try to play every adventure before I run it. Don't always work out that way because, well someone has to run it. I find that if I have played an adventure, than when I GM I have a little bit understand of what is going to happen.
The decision to jump into GMing from being player varies by person. I started GMing again after 20+ years way from RPGs because I saw the number of active GMs were declining and felt it was time I stepped up to help.
There are players who will never GM because it is not their thing. I know of GMs who really only GM because that is what they prefer.
I believe face to face is better for new GMs. The who technology thing of online play can be really intimidating for someone who is already nervous about GMing.
My 2 coppers anyways.
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Venture-Agent, Online—VTT
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I wouldn't stress yourself too hard about mastery if the rules in advance. We try to run things in accordance with the rules of the system to the best if our ability.
Sometimes you make a mistake and no one realizes. The game moves on.
Sometimes we make mistakes and someone else at the table can tell us what we missed. Then you learn something, and the game goes on.
Sometimes, a specific mechanic is written in an adventure that doesn't seem to fit the normal rules. You go with what the scenario says and it works out.
Sometimes the rules are actually ambiguous, or the players come up with a clever idea the rules don't really address, or that break the expected sequence of the adventure . You make a call as a GM, because you do have the freedom to adjudicate unusual situations (contrary to a myth that goes around sometimes suggesting that only robotic adherence to text is permitted). It might give you something to look up later, but your experience GMing other systems may help you with the improvisation that happens here. Then you guide things back into the waters charted in the scenario in the way that makes the most sense with whatever just happened.
On the whole, though, being willing to put the effort into trying to run things well and fairly for your players is much more important than your level of system experience.
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I would say, as welcoming as we want to be, that the majority of the population of Society players expect their GM to be proficient in the rules. As opposed to what Society GMs expect of their players, which is to sometimes have someone completely new to the system.
I would say that if you want to jump in new to Society GMing while simultaneously new to the system, the most important thing is to advertise that to your players.
It is completely fair of a player and no besmirching of a new GM if a player wants to play only with or a specific set of scenarios with an experienced GM. It wouldn't be fair to advertise a table (PbP, roll20, etc.) absent the oversight of a VO and then spring on the players once they've shown up and signed in that you've never GMed Society play and you've never played or run PF2 before. Even if you're completely awesome.
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Venture-Agent, Online—VTT
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"Absent the oversight of a VO" is how most first sessions I've seen have happened. Hasn't been a problem.
If you're an experienced player with an inexperienced GM, you can offer some help if weird thing's come up. If no one's experienced (like all of our games were going a year ago), it's a fine chance to learn together.
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The way to read my statement is: if there's no VO (or even established member of the community where you're going to try GMing) there to vouch for you and make sure things run smoothly, then you should advertise clearly your level of proficiency so the players understand what to expect.
Not, you can't be a GM without VO oversight.
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BNW: Your link took me to your shopping cart somehow...
Now, PbP has GM school, which is really good for new Society GMs, GMs new to PbP, though I'm not sure when the next one will be available given we're about to head into Gameday IX, a PbP convention.
PbP is a handy want to get into playing and GMing Society because we have a pretty sizable established community of long time PbP players, many of whom are happy to join a new GM's table to help out when needed and be a resource in general.
This is where advertising your newness is helpful, because it will draw the helpful players' attention.
Another thing that is helpful is to run Repeatable scenarios your first (or first few times) so that helpful people can join your table (be it PbP, VTT, or face to face). If you run PFS(2) 1-03 as your first scenario, there's a good chance all of the established players have played it over the past year. If you run a repeatable, they can hop on, even if they need to make a new character to do it.
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I bet it took you to your shopping cart, due to a quirk in how this quirky site works... he believe meant to link to http://pfschat.com/.
On to GMing!
In my experience, your level of comfort with GMing is going to be dependent on a lot of things, including how much you've GMed in the past (even if it's not for organized play), how much org play you've actually taken part in, and your level of familiarity with the rules.
You've got some experience running other systems, so I think you're a better candidate for jumping in the deep end than most. Still, there are a lot of very strange things about organized play that running home games simply doesn't prepare you for. If you have the opportunity, I would play at least a couple of games (preferably more!) before you give Society GMing a try.
It was... not a disaster, but it also wasn't great. I had a bunch of new players as well, one of whom cast entangle on the entire map on the first round. 40-foot radius of entangling vines and difficult terrain. None of the PCs had serious ranged attack options. It took two and a half hours for the first combat after I had the last combatant, unharmed, give up and leap off a cliff into the sea in despair. It was a four-hour slot. There were three more combats. Everyone had a good time, but it wasn't what we'd call a smooth table for organized play.
How many of you that have GM'd for Society games did so before playing in one? How about before playing a PC in Pathfinder period?
I came close to this, and wouldn't recommend it.
How many of you had prior GMing experience in Pathfinder? What was the biggest change you had to make in how you approach Society games from your regular games?
I had lots of prior experience and still, I had a ton to learn. You need to be aware of the clock to a far greater degree. You're far more constrained by the adventure as written. As a GM you benefit far more from having a set of interpersonal tools for maintaining a good pace and for moving people along who aren't sure what to do or who are otherwise playing slowly.
You also have less autonomy over the characters at your table; taking a relaxed attitude toward builds will really help. You aren't the final say, so you aren't going to have the same familiar characters along for the ride every session like in a home campaign. There will be characters built based on rulings in FAQs and weird interactions that you're unfamiliar with and that aren't even legal except for a boon you've never seen! Even if you don't think a character option should work that way, many of the builds you see will be legal. (Not that you don't see some accidentally invalid builds now and again.)
One thing that didn't trip me up but has tripped up other GMs: you also need to be more conscious of the perspectives and sensitivities of players you have never met. You are likely not going to know your players, at least not at first, so treat your game like you're speaking in front of a public audience. Jokes are fine, but not every joke is.
You also need to be on top of the rules of Society, like chronicle sheets and day jobs and so on. Spending time as a player really helps with that part.
What turns a new player into someone who's ready to GM a Society game?
Beyond experience and familiarity with the rules? There are a lot of ways to GM. The two motivations I've seen that pay off are a desire to give back to the community, and a desire to earn race boons at a convention.
Beyond that, an ability to improvise helps a lot; the capability to see things from multiple perspectives is helpful; the discipline to study the adventure and the relevant rules is important; and finally the ability to read the room (or at least the table) also pays off in spades. But none of those are required.
Face to face and play by post, does one style lend itself better to a new GM?
I learned best face-to-face. I don't think play-by-post is inherently easier, but we have an awesome community of PbP-ers who can really train you up. Learning both a VTT (like Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds) and Pathfinder is a tall order, though, and as has been mentioned, these things are meant to run 4 or 5 hours and folks get unhappy when they run long--so IMO, set expectations by being clear up-front that you're new, and start with a low-level intro scenario.
And, lastly, how did y'all fare running your first Society game?
Covered that above, at least! It wasn't awful, but it wasn't good either. Based on my experience, I'd recommend being comfortable with things not going as well as you would like.
Thanks everyone. I feel I now have a much better understanding of how to handle intergrating into Society play.
I'll run a game or two with one of my regular players to get more familiar with the system, and then try to jump in PbP as a player. See how it goes from there.
Maybe I'll try a PbP with the rest of my regulars. Do forums allow for non-society games, or does every game need to be a society game?
EDIT: Never mind that, they probably wouldn't be comfortable having the game be public.
Thanks again to everyone who took the time to respond!
P.S. One thing thought: What's a VO?
Ah, Venture Officers, got it.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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To look at the question a different way: why don't you try a couple of games as a player? There's a huge online community to play with, and you can get a sense of how other people have figured it out.
Also, I personally love playing a scenario first before running it, since I get to see the story fresh and then afterwards think "how am I gonna present this even better to the folks back home?"
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Sebastian's post sparked a thought. There is a lot of extra stuff that Org Play GM has to do that is not related to actually running the adventure.
Getting the reporting sheet filled out, filling out the chronicle, and reporting the table are a few.
Playing a table or two and tasking questions of the GM on how these things are handled will be very helpful.
