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So the Tarrasque thinks its hot stuff with the new printing with its whole "Regen overcome by nothing" and "Even if you kill it with a death effect it'll come back in 3 rounds". As is tradition, we must now find ways to kill the tarrasque even through this.
I propose: Method #1 - The Doomed Condition.
Regeneration only stops the creature hitting dying 4 (and dying). If a creature is doomed 1, then Regeneration won't help it. Doomed is a very difficult condition for PCs to inflict, and relies on some uncommon methods to function as far as I can tell.
1) Any death effect that kills the tarrasque (such as Power Word: Kill or Suffocating it with Control Sand), Blessing of the Five (revives it with 1 HP and Doomed 1), then slapping it back down to dying 3 (killing it permanently).
2) Somehow get an Apocalypse Daemon, Astradaemon (+4 Bone Croupiers) or a Skulltaker (+ A Bone Croupier). The Bone Croupiers can be gotten through the Animate Dead spell which will be in the APG (though we don't know what level or tradition it'll be), the Daemons and the Skulltaker... require some GM fiat.
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Damn. The Tarrasque sounds like a real apocalypse monster now. You could build an entire adventure with the goal of trying to kill it.
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Caster uses Gate to a deadly place in front of the Tarrasque, Enlarged Fighter with Brutish + Powerful Shove and most likely buffed to the max and with someone giving Aid for maximum chance to hit to shove the Tarrasque through the Gate.
Win.
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So the Tarrasque thinks its hot stuff with the new printing with its whole "Regen overcome by nothing" and "Even if you kill it with a death effect it'll come back in 3 rounds". As is tradition, we must now find ways to kill the tarrasque even through this.
I propose: Method #1 - The Doomed Condition.
Regeneration only stops the creature hitting dying 4 (and dying). If a creature is doomed 1, then Regeneration won't help it. Doomed is a very difficult condition for PCs to inflict, and relies on some uncommon methods to function as far as I can tell.
1) Any death effect that kills the tarrasque (such as Power Word: Kill or Suffocating it with Control Sand), Blessing of the Five (revives it with 1 HP and Doomed 1), then slapping it back down to dying 3 (killing it permanently).
2) Somehow get an Apocalypse Daemon, Astradaemon (+4 Bone Croupiers) or a Skulltaker (+ A Bone Croupier). The Bone Croupiers can be gotten through the Animate Dead spell which will be in the APG (though we don't know what level or tradition it'll be), the Daemons and the Skulltaker... require some GM fiat.
I'm honestly not even sure Doomed will work long-term. After all, the "Regen even through a Death Effect" and "if killed instantly it rises again in 3 rounds" are two separate sentences, even if they are back to back.
A spawn of Rovagug has regeneration powerful enough to revive it even if slain by a death effect. If the spawn fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 Hit Point.
Interestingly the Doomed condition even uses the terminology "instantly die" so there's a distinct possibility for it to specifically apply here.
Now, of course, there is an argument to be made that as long as the final blow is attack-based rather than save based it can't come back, due to the "if [it] fails a save" terminology, but yeah.
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Correct, has to be from a failed saving throw (though technically, a critical failure wouldn't trigger this either). Plus, Doomed doesn't have the Death trait, which means it's not a Death effect.
Doomed seems to be the go-to here, though honestly I don't think even that is meant to stop it, for obvious reasons. But if we're going by technicalities, then it makes sense to me.
For the first method, it would require some Godclaw Hellknights with the Advanced Order Training feat to revive a dead Tarrasque before its Regeneration does, which would be caused by a Death effect.
For the second method, it would require some extreme convincing of an Evil entity. If they Doom the target, they would eventually acquire its soul, since that's basically the flavor of the Doomed condition.
Imagine the power and fame they would wield by being the one who brought a Tarrasque to its knees and condemning its soul to the Hells from which it could never escape! Plus, this would certainly help eliminate a potential thorn in their sides if they are entities whose ambitions are blocked by random threats such as these.
Caster uses Gate to a deadly place in front of the Tarrasque, Enlarged Fighter with Brutish + Powerful Shove and most likely buffed to the max and with someone giving Aid for maximum chance to hit to shove the Tarrasque through the Gate.
Win.
Death By Awesome on the Positive Energy plane should work.
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I am of the opinion that the tarrasque cannot be permanently killed. Rovagug simply won't allow it. Even if through some perfectly applied series of events someone could manage to "kill" it, ol' Rovy will bring it back, and probably close the loophole/exploit that was uncovered so that cannot happen again. Or at least not until someone manages to discover a new weakness, exploit it, and the process is renewed. The tarrasque is the epitome of "you cannot stop him, you can only hope to contain him."
tl;dr the tarrasque has story/plot/narrative immunity :-D
I am pleased that it's not simple matter for even a group of level 20 adventures to neutralize the tarasque anymore, as it should be. I that divine magic is the best way to attack this version of the Tarasque. They did a great job building this version of a tarasque, now JJ just needs to make him the star of it's own AP.
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For the second method, it would require some extreme convincing of an Evil entity. If they Doom the target, they would eventually acquire its soul, since that's basically the flavor of the Doomed condition.
Imagine the power and fame they would wield by being the one who brought a Tarrasque to its knees and condemning its soul to the Hells from which it could never escape! Plus, this would certainly help eliminate a potential thorn in their sides if they are entities whose ambitions are blocked by random threats such as these.
I’m not even sure Asmodeus wants the Tarrasque in hell... a common theme with the Tarrasque is people want it to be wherever is as far from where they are as possible. I’ve always imagined heroes “sealing away” the Tarrasque by casting it into some far-off dimension are actually just causing massive mayhem over there instead, leading to a new group of heroes sealing it away somewhere else ad nauseam.
I’m not even sure Asmodeus wants the Tarrasque in hell... a common theme with the Tarrasque is people want it to be wherever is as far from where they are as possible. I’ve always imagined heroes “sealing away” the Tarrasque by casting it into some far-off dimension are actually just causing massive mayhem over there instead, leading to a new group of heroes sealing it away somewhere else ad nauseam.For the second method, it would require some extreme convincing of an Evil entity. If they Doom the target, they would eventually acquire its soul, since that's basically the flavor of the Doomed condition.
Imagine the power and fame they would wield by being the one who brought a Tarrasque to its knees and condemning its soul to the Hells from which it could never escape! Plus, this would certainly help eliminate a potential thorn in their sides if they are entities whose ambitions are blocked by random threats such as these.
Haha, this is literally the plot Hulk vs Wolverine. Loki tricks Hel into bringing the Hulk to hell, and chaos ensues. No way any devil will help. i could see maybe one demon prince trying to unleash the tarasque against another demon prince.
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Well thats easy, just build and use an Oxygen Destroyer or lure it into an active volcano...
Caster uses Gate to a deadly place in front of the Tarrasque, Enlarged Fighter with Brutish + Powerful Shove and most likely buffed to the max and with someone giving Aid for maximum chance to hit to shove the Tarrasque through the Gate.
Win.
I like it but's its more of a take our problems and give them to someone else.
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Well thats easy, just build and use an Oxygen Destroyer or lure it into an active volcano...
The effectiveness of an active volcano is actually going to a bit iffy. Immersion in lava ranges from 16d6-24d6 per round. With 25 fire resistance and 50 regeneration, the Tarrasque can easily handle the low end of that, and can regenerate on rounds with low rolls on the high end (conscious one round in eight at 24d6).
I’m not even sure Asmodeus wants the Tarrasque in hell... a common theme with the Tarrasque is people want it to be wherever is as far from where they are as possible. I’ve always imagined heroes “sealing away” the Tarrasque by casting it into some far-off dimension are actually just causing massive mayhem over there instead, leading to a new group of heroes sealing it away somewhere else ad nauseam.For the second method, it would require some extreme convincing of an Evil entity. If they Doom the target, they would eventually acquire its soul, since that's basically the flavor of the Doomed condition.
Imagine the power and fame they would wield by being the one who brought a Tarrasque to its knees and condemning its soul to the Hells from which it could never escape! Plus, this would certainly help eliminate a potential thorn in their sides if they are entities whose ambitions are blocked by random threats such as these.
But think about it: The Tarrasque is one of the most powerful entities in all of creation, and with its soul condemned to Hell, it now falls under Asmodeus' control and domain. Asmodeus may not like it due to potential enemies he may make, or the chaos that might ensue as devils would try to vie for its potential, but he would be foolish not to consider the amount of power he could have and exert at his very whims while not being in direct contact with the material plane, or other planes. Or heck, he may take care of a thorn in his side on the material plane by having this creature "removed" from the playing field, and if things work out accordingly, he would gain an almost unmatched and powerful asset.
Maybe he can use it as a bargaining chip for his evil servants to summon and rampage across countries and continents, only to have them call upon his services to claim their souls in exchange for salvation from the very evil that he has wrought upon them. A little underhanded, but when you're dealing with the King of Devils, to him this is but another stone in the path of business.
I am of the opinion that the tarrasque cannot be permanently killed.
While this might be the intention, there is a long tradition that players will find a way to kill anything with a statblock.
I am of the opinion that the tarrasque cannot be permanently killed.While this might be the intention, there is a long tradition that players will find a way to kill anything with a statblock.
Yes. This is why many iterations of DnD avoided statting out deities, while some others who'd done so regretted it.
Deadlands avoided this with some of its worst baddies, even saying that if you did stat them out and they got killed, you should replace them (at least if you want to perpetuate the grimdark horror atmosphere).IMO, the Tarrasque is only vulnerable to plot.
Determine macguffin even gods have not determined, find macguffin beyond reach of mortals, then finally stop rampage (that the PCs have likely been mitigating, yet unable to prevent).
Even if successful, that's a campaign-altering event wherever the Tarrasque struck. Then stay tuned because maybe killing his strongest pet stirred up Rovagug!
I’m not even sure Asmodeus wants the Tarrasque in hell... a common theme with the Tarrasque is people want it to be wherever is as far from where they are as possible. I’ve always imagined heroes “sealing away” the Tarrasque by casting it into some far-off dimension are actually just causing massive mayhem over there instead, leading to a new group of heroes sealing it away somewhere else ad nauseam.For the second method, it would require some extreme convincing of an Evil entity. If they Doom the target, they would eventually acquire its soul, since that's basically the flavor of the Doomed condition.
Imagine the power and fame they would wield by being the one who brought a Tarrasque to its knees and condemning its soul to the Hells from which it could never escape! Plus, this would certainly help eliminate a potential thorn in their sides if they are entities whose ambitions are blocked by random threats such as these.
But think about it: The Tarrasque is one of the most powerful entities in all of creation, and with its soul condemned to Hell, it now falls under Asmodeus' control and domain. Asmodeus may not like it due to potential enemies he may make, or the chaos that might ensue as devils would try to vie for its potential, but he would be foolish not to consider the amount of power he could have and exert at his very whims while not being in direct contact with the material plane, or other planes. Or heck, he may take care of a thorn in his side on the material plane by having this creature "removed" from the playing field, and if things work out accordingly, he would gain an almost unmatched and powerful asset.
Maybe he can use it as a bargaining chip for his evil servants to summon and rampage across countries and continents, only to have them call upon his services to claim their souls in exchange for salvation from the very evil that he has wrought upon them. A little underhanded, but when you're dealing with the King of...
I suppose it is arguable that asmodeous is arrogant enough to think that he can control the tarasque, i still think that the fact he was the cause of the rampaging Rovagug in the firt place would give him pause. I really think it would take an archdemon to have the power, arrogance and love of chaos to do something as foolish as to kidnap the tarasque and bring it to their realm.
Hm... if Regeneration stops you from getting past Dying 3, then I would think Doomed would mean it's dead. That said, doomed goes away after a night's rest. once the corpse with regeneration that doesnt turn off is no longer doomed, would the beast rise again? Weird thought.
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Hm... if Regeneration stops you from getting past Dying 3, then I would think Doomed would mean it's dead. That said, doomed goes away after a night's rest. once the corpse with regeneration that doesnt turn off is no longer doomed, would the beast rise again? Weird thought.
Nothing lets it do so, it only rises again after being killed by a death effect, of which dying and doomed aren’t.
Banishing / trapping it seems to be the easier solution than killing, e.g. sending it to the paraelemental plane of ice where ideally it can remain frozen for a couple of thousand years.
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Can I just take a moment to say, I'm grateful that the answer to these things no longer boils down to "Summon Monster > Command it to paint" in the new edition.
I just hope it stays this way. I agree that plot-related ways are the best tack here, I'm not sold that Doomed would do anything here long term let alone finding a reliable way of applying the Doomed Condition to an enemy who will ALWAYS out-level a Character and treat their Save Result as one better as the result of the almost inevitable incapacitation trait any effect that could apply Doomed would have.
My money is on wrapping it in a literal mile of enchanted 5-inch thick adamantine chain, after temporarily subduing it at 0 HP, that's been blessed by some truly badass angelic planar entities and hurling it into the sun for a nice... oh, let us say 200d6 Fire and 400d6 Bludgeoning Damage (the force of gravity crushing it) per round.
The sun's long been a standard depository for unwanted immortal villains (even early Batman did this to a normal guy whose only power was immortality IIRC). Sentry did this not too long ago (also IIRC).
Trouble is, in Golarion lore, the sun's inhabited!
Eventually, the Tarrasque would land in some habitable area and start regenerating. There are no negative hit points, so it'd be immediate.
As for other expulsions, it'd only be a matter of time before some agent wishes to utilize the Tarrasque as a weapon of destruction (even if mutual). And in fantasy, death is just another expulsion.
You'd have to make the Tarrasque perma-dead (if that's even a thing in PF2) w/ no soul/essence to exploit, or unfindable (if deity-level divinations could even be thwarted in PF2) or unreachable (if such a location exists).
Essentially, the Tarrasque will always be available for plots and only vulnerable to plots revolving around it. Right now it's on time-out, yet we all know that's only until Paizo has a use for it. I wouldn't expect to see it though until Paizo wants to reshuffle Golarion a bit.
Well, if the sun is out, lets find a nice blackhole. Nothing living in one of them yet and if there was, they aren't coming out anyway.
Unless blackholes are gateways to the negative energy plane or similar...
Find a black hole that has got the right rotation and make the Tarrasque orbit around it, as close as possible. By the time the beast recovers and somehow develops a space flight ability, a long long time will have passed on Golarion.