Aqueous Orb, casting and moving in one round?

[Julien Dien]

In one round, can I cast an Aqueous Orb with standard action and then move it with a move action? If so, the target has to take twice Reflex(actually four times) saving in one round.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

By the standards of other spells they never need to make more than one save on your turn against any single effect.
If a target makes its save they don't need to make another save unless you run the sphere into them on your next turn. If they fail they get another save on their turn to escape.

Going by your assumptions, why stop at two forced saves? With the amount of movement the spell has you could conceivably force up to seven saves on one spell (manifest the spell on the target for the first save, then just move it in 5' increments in and out of the target's square). Sound sensible? I would argue that RAI this is not possible (and rule this way in my games).

[Julien Dien]

Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:

By the standards of other spells they never need to make more than one save on your turn against any single effect.

sounds rational. seven times^^^

Is it FAQ or just a common agreement?

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

Don't know if it's either. I'm just basing things off of existing spells and what makes sense the way saving throws work in other cases.

[Julien Dien]

I will take your way. Thank you.

[GotAFarmYet?]

Pretty much a gray area

I would go with the simplest way, the rules vaguely state that you only have one movement action. So you can only move it or yourself once in the melee round. If you take damage during the round I would also make you role a spell check to make sure you can maintain the spell.

I would also make the direction continuous, you can make it a circle but not back and forth. This would also stop the multiple attacks from happening. I think multiple attacks with it might be possible if you have more than one standard action, as you can convert one to movement agains vaguely mentioned.

[Julien Dien]

Quote:

You could try to run someone over 4 times in one round, and it would only require one save, because "in the path" is a binary state. You either are or aren't.

I agree with the logic above.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/ad81o4/aqueous_orb/

[Andostre]

If I wanted to get really specific to avoid the abuse of this spell, I would argue that a wobble doesn't put a target "in the path of the aqueous orb," which is the spell text that is the requirement for a target to take damage and have to make the first save.

I guess you could also argue that casting the orb right on top of a target doesn't put it in the orb's path, but I feel like that isn't RAI (but neither is seven saves in one round from the same spell).

If I had a player trying to cheese this spell, I would grant two saves sessions. (I say "save sessions" because if a target fails the first roll against the damage, they have to make a second against being carried along; that's one session.) It would work like this:

1) The orb is cast 5 feet away from a target (standard action), or it starts 5 feet away from a target (first move action). It then moves (move action) five feet over the target to initiate the first save session.
2) Then the orb has to move completely past the target, and this takes ten feet because the orb is ten feet wide. So that's 15 feet of movement used so far, and this puts the orb in a similar situation as the beginning of the round, but on the other side of the target. The remaining 15 feet is spent in much the same way as the first, initiating the second save session that I would allow.

I realize that there is plenty of room for argument in this, but that's how I would rule. I feel like it rewards the player for smartly using the mechanics in a way for added benefit, but doesn't let the spell go into abuse territory, which would allow 3+ save-or-suck saves on potentially more than one target.

Flaming sphere, which is a similar spell, has a line saying that once the sphere enters a square with a target, the sphere stops moving for the round. Someone at Paizo didn't include that for this spell, so if a player thinks of a new way to use the mechanics, good for them. But keep in mind that this is only a 3rd level spell.

[Andostre]

Julien Dien wrote:

Quote:

You could try to run someone over 4 times in one round, and it would only require one save, because "in the path" is a binary state. You either are or aren't.

I agree with the logic above.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/ad81o4/aqueous_orb/

So, as a GM, I'd be fine with that ruling since I believe it's RAI, but is there a precedent in the game for resolving everything as per a binary state?

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

Andostre wrote:

Flaming sphere, which is a similar spell, has a line saying that once the sphere enters a square with a target, the sphere stops moving for the round. Someone at Paizo didn't include that for this spell

Intentionally, if you look at the design of the AO. It's supposed to gobble up creatures and drag them along, so stopping when it hits a creature would be a bit odd.

*has many happy thoughts about katamari damacy-ing a halfling village*

[Andostre]

Good point.