Character Suggestion


Rise of the Runelords


Hi! We are going to start a new RotR campaign soon, and I need an advice.
I was going to play a Dwarf ranger, and I'm the only one of the group who had a clear idea of what character to do. However, turns out no one wants to be the healer, and while I know that apparently the game can be played without one (even if I never tried it), the others in my group don't believe it, and absolutely want there to be a dedicated healer.
They are thinking of making a draw to choose someone to make a healer class, and while I don't agree forcing someone to make a character that he does not like, I will abide by the majority.
Just to be prepared in case fate chooses me, I've started checking out the various healing class options (we are limited to core manual and the Advanced Player's Guide), but none really caught my eye. Keep in mind that it's the first time that we have access to the Advanced Player's Guide. We have always been restricted to the Core Manual until now, so I don't have any experience with the classes listed there.

I never liked the cleric class: I REALLY dislike the spell list in particular, and I hate that it has just 2 skill ranks per level.
The oracle looked somewhat more interesting (at least some mysteries give some different spells), but does it perform well if it's not using the life mystery? I don't want to be relegated to be a simple healbot, which the life mystery seems to be. The Lore mystery abilities look like they would be helpful and well suited to this adventure path, but the spells it gives are kinda lackluster, and it feels like it would be too similar to a wizard (and while I LOVE wizards, and I know that they would fare really well in RotR, I just finished playing one, and I wanted a change)
The Paladin could be interesting, but in our last campaign we had one and the group was exasperated by the strict alignment and behaviour it forced on the rest of the party, so it seems it's a no go.
I really like the druid, but I also already played one, and I'd rather change. I also did not find the class particularly effective as a healer when I played it (but then again, we already had a main healer, so I was kinda free to do whatever I wanted, which rarely included healing).
I have absolutely no idea of how an inquisitor or the other advanced classes would work as main healers, and since from what I know RotR was created with just the core classes in mind, I'm afraid I would miss out on many opportunities.
I'd really like a class that can stand out in this adventure path, not just mechanically/combat wise, but one that fits and has moments in which to shine (which the ranger seemed to be).
I know I might be asking a lot, but does anyone have any suggestions please?
We are using a 16 points build, so it's not really a lot.
Thank you in advance for your help!

P.S. Sorry for any mistakes, English is not my native language.

Grand Lodge

Hi there kalanafein,

My standard advice would be to play the character that you want, especially if you already built them. That said, that's explicitly not the advice you're asking for, so I'll run you through some particularly appropriate options for this AP

Very Appropriate Options:
- An Oracle of Heavens (+cure spells) is an effective control caster who can make a great healer. Pick up 1) remove fear, 2) remove paralysis, 3) remove curse OR remove disease, 4) restoration (and neutralize poison, if you feel the need), 5) breath of life, 6) heal as your healing spells, and you'll be set for most APs. Desna is a major deity of Varisia, and makes for a great source of divine power (for flavor reasons).

- An Oracle of Battle (+cure or +inflict) is a great melee or ranged combatant who is typically better at support than strict healing, but splashing healing spells (like those above) with certainly serve you well. I have one of these in my party right now, and mobility is their only significant issue - the right magic items can help with this. Sarenrae, Shelyn, Lamashtu, Urgathoa, Abadar - you've got plenty of main-pantheon deities who might be connected to an oracle of battle in this adventure.

- A Cleric with a decent Int (12-14) might be well-served by becoming a Loremaster (PrC), granting them pseudo-Bardic Knowledge and a lot of small bonuses that really add up when playing a skillful character without compromising spellcasting. If you pick this style, I recommend being a high-Wis cleric without bothering too much with Str or Cha. Loremasters are very welcome in this sort of adventure. I'd recommend Pharasma, Nethys, or Abadar for a core deity, though Desna is, as always, quite appropriate.

- If your party is down for a weird experience, take a look at a CN Cleric of Lamashtu. Lamashtu can support many builds of cleric, but a Human Cleric of Lamashtu with a 12 Int gets 4 skill ranks/level and has room to do melee, control, or support. Strength (Ferocity) and Chaos (Demon) domain for a mobile melee combatant! Madness and Trickery (Deception) for a control caster! Trickery and Chaos for a summoner/support!

- A Hospitaler Paladin (APG) can heal a lot of HP over the day, and has OK status removal thanks to mercies. With only the first two books, you won't have excellent healing options as a paladin, but this can at least keep a group on its feet. Paladins have plenty of opportunities to shine in this AP, and there are many faiths represented in the region as well.

Adequate Options:
- Inquisitors, especially APG-only Inquisitors, do not make effective healers. They're divine damage dealers and skill monkeys who have to compromise what makes them effective to contribute meaningful healing, which will just make them worse-off than, say, an oracle. Not to say you shouldn't play one if you like it, but I'd be VERY sparing on my healing spell selections with an Inquisitor.

- A Fighter 1 / Oracle of Waves X (with a longbow) may not be especially thematically appropriate, but the Water Sight revelation can take you pretty far. You'll be a full spell level behind on status removal spells vs. a cleric, but you'll still be able to keep up with the AP most of the time as long as you don't dip more than a single level in Fighter.

- A Witch (Healing or Ancestors patron) can contribute primarily as a battlefield controller while having a decent selection of cleric-esque spells (healing for status removal, ancestors for buffs and utility), as well as delayed-progression resurrection magic. My party had a witch as their primary healer, controller, and scholar all the way through Level 10. They lived?

I hope this helps and good luck on the AP.


I advise you not to feel pressured into playing 'the healer'. You really don't need one, and picking a class you don't want to play for a multi-year campaign is a bad idea imho.

If someone in your group feels passionately that there needs to be a 'healer' in the party, then let them play it. I suggest you choose whichever class you most want to play out of the complete list available (that your GM has ok'd).


You don't need a healer, you need someone who can either cast healing spells or who can wield wands to cast those spells.


I also would like to add my agreement with the others that players should play what they want, and should not be pressured into a particular role.

There are a variety of ways to handle "healing". I will your dwarven ranger at 1st level is quite capable of using a cure light wounds wand. 1d8+1 times 50 is a lot of healing for only 750 gp at low level. The GM could make a used, 10 charge wand available on the market in Sandpoint for 75 gold pieces, something purchasable as a group as soon as you arrive.

There are also other options available to the GM if no one in the party wants to play a "healer" but the entire group feels its necessary. A slightly lower level GM NPC could fill that function.

However, to add to other crazy non-standard healing ideas:

Skald:
Take a skald (Barbarian/Bard hybrid from the advanced class guide).

At 3rd level take the Barbarian Lesser Celestial Totem raging power from the Pathfinder Player Companion: Champions of Purity. Its increases all healing from spells or effects by the caster level or character level while under its effects. This rage power can be shared to all your allies via raging song.

Also take the lingering song feat at 1st or 3rd.

At 4th level, pick the 2nd level spell "Path of Glory" from the advanced class guide as one of your spells known. 1 round of raging song (which lasts for 3 rounds because lingering) + 2nd level spell slot can heal each member of the party 16 hit points after combat at 4th level.

At 10th level, 3 rage rounds + 2nd level spell slot heals 100 hit points to each party member after combat over 10 rounds.

For 1st through 3rd, use cure light wounds, plus a wand. Well, you can also keep using cure spells since their on your list if you want.

Otherwise, the build is pretty open and lets you add other rage powers to your allies at higher levels. I'm personally a fan of superstitious->witch hunter->spell sunder. Especially if there's a sunder specialist in the party.

Keep in mind a skald gets to choose which rage powers to apply each time they start a song, so you could be superstitious one round, and then not the next if you spend the action to restart the song. There's no fatigue, so there's nothing preventing you from providing spell sunder once per rage, every round.

Or combine with different once per rage abilities.

Gray Paladin:
If the party had issues with Paladin morale codes, there is the Gray Paladin from Ultimate intrigue which can be Lawful Good, Neutral Good, or Lawful Neutral. Which means as long as you don't do outright evil, you won't fall. Of course, it trades out channel energy for an non-good smite (i.e. works on neutrals) and generally has weaker abilities (no charisma to saving throws), but in exchange can smite anything at 4th. So without channel, you're down to lay on hands, wands and limited spells.

Its quite happy to be sneaky, intimidating, or dishonest. Just don't go around doing them for evil reasons.

For party wide optimization, everyone could be a Fey Foundling (Inner Sea World Guide). It lets things like lay on hands and channel energy become much stronger (i.e. 1d6 is 3.5 average, while 1d6+2 is 5.5 average, or 57% stronger), plus it makes your wands go a little farther (36% more healing per charge of cure light wounds wand).

Playing the game should be fun, and playing a character concept you don't want to play is a fast route to make the game not fun.


I second Askar Askavi's Oracle recommendations. I'm playing a Heavens oracle in a Reign of Winter game, and it's a blast. Plus you can wear Medium armor, carry a shield, and use your other spells known for things like bless, divine favor, and shield of faith, allowing you to serve as an effective secondary melee combatant, which gives you a way to contribute in combat besides being a healbot.

EDIT: A Nature Oracle might still give you some of that Ranger feel. You can get a mount that can function as an animal companion, and you can use your Charisma bonus to AC instead of your Dex bonus.


The OP "REALLY dislikes the divine spell list" so I don't think an Oracle will keep them happy for a campaign.

It's just lame that players will insist there's a healer whilst refusing to play one. That's bad behaviour. If someone firmly believes a certain class needs to be in the party they should play it. It's not ok to pressure others to play a certain class. The OP should play whatever they want, and if one of the party who think a healer is essential really thinks that, they can play the healer.

Grand Lodge

I wanted to address the OP's concerns as stated, but yes, on a "how to handle playing at a table with other people" level, I don't find the group's behavior acceptable.

1) Insisting there needs to be a healer instead of adapting the game to suit a no-healer party is silly when the devs have already taken steps to making the role unnecessary.

2) Insisting that someone should be made the healer via lots assumes that someone should sacrifice their fun for the good of the group. I think that leads to party conflict, resentment, and generally having a bad time.

3) Switching from something you clearly want to do to something that clearly disinterests you will take away from your experience and leave you wishing you were playing what you actually want to play.

If OP decides to go with this anyway, I hope my suggestions can help. But I would really recommend resolving this above the table, because the game hasn't even started and there's already unnecessary controlling behavior from other players.

Offer to use a wand of cure light wounds on your party's behalf as your ranger, and call your healing obligations fulfilled would be my genuine recommendation. Everyone should play what they'd be happiest playing for at least a year. And if there's a class to specifically include because of campaign importance, I'd say wizard! Wizards are a very big deal in this campaign, so if anyone's inclined to play one, why not have one? 'Healers' not so.


The OP also said that the Oracle looked more interesting, but wondered how they would perform as a healer without being a Life Oracle.

I concur that the OP needs to speak to the other players, and let them know they aren't interested in playing a healer. If they draw the short straw, you'll use a Wand of Cure Light wounds on the party's behalf to cover healing, and then play what you want to play.

Alternatively, you could ask the GM to up the effectiveness and lower the base DC of the Treat Deadly Wounds function of the Heal skill, maybe lowering the DC to 15 and upping the amount of HP healed to 1d4 per level of the creature? To go along with that, you could ask them to allow you to use it more often per 24 hours per creature - perhaps with an increasing DC for each time it's used within a 24 hour period.

It's always annoyed me how negelcted the Heal skill is.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

So I didn't read the whole thread but heres the tea. Healing is the whole partys responsibility. If there is no dedicated healer than the GM should work with the party to make sure things like CLW Wands and potions are available.

Pathfinder is a team game and I have seen the results of when a party doesn't want to work together or a player is suggested or forced to play something they don't enjoy and that is bored players on their phones or handhelds who just roll a d8 when there name is called and don't engage otherwise or just plain leave the game.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Phntm888 wrote:


Alternatively, you could ask the GM to up the effectiveness and lower the base DC of the Treat Deadly Wounds function of the Heal skill, maybe lowering the DC to 15 and upping the amount of HP healed to 1d4 per level of the creature? To go along with that, you could ask them to allow you to use it more often per 24 hours per creature - perhaps with an increasing DC for each time it's used within a 24 hour period.

It's always annoyed me how negelcted the Heal skill is.

2E really fixed the problem with the medicine skill and the 10 minute trat wounds action that cures 2d8 or 4d8 on a crit.


I know, and it's one of the things I like about PF2. It also makes needing a healbot less necessary. I'm playing in an Age of Ashes PbP right now, and our in-combat healing comes from my bard, with soothe. We rely on our Ranger with Medicine and our Champion with Lay on Hands for out of combat healing.


Here I am again. Sorry for the late reply, but we finally started the adventure path.
The group decided to keep a secret what character each player would make (except mine, since I had already informed them of what I would do ^^"), while the GM would keep tabs on all and make sure that the ending group would be ok. This because they like the idea of discovering the other characters in game. I can see the appeal, but I personally would have preferred a little more communication.
Luckily, in the end someone decided to make a cleric anyway.
Anyway, the group is made of:

- Dwarven ranger switch hitter with human as favored enemy
- Half elven cleric archer of Erastil (2 sessions in, the player has already said that he's having a hard time with the class...).
- Shoanti barbarian
- Gnome, not sure of his class yet. Some kind of caster, maybe sorcerer, since he seems charisma based. He seems to have a familiar (again, not sure if it's a familiar or simply a pet). A couple of times he cast some kind of low damage electricity sphere that I'm having a hard time identifying.

I hope the group will be balanced enough for the whole adventure path.
At the moment the 2 things that worry me a little is that NONE of us has knowledge (history) or knowledge (local), and it seems we are also kinda low on the social skills (gnome is the only one with charisma bonus and that could plausibly have some kind of diplomacy, but I've not seen him using it yet, so...)
What do you think of the party composition?

Thanks again to everyone for the help!

Grand Lodge

Barbarian, Ranger, Cleric, and Sorcerer (Arcane or Sylvan) from the sound of it? Sounds like a good party!

It's true, the lack of those knowledges hurts, but with a cleric in the party (for divinations) and a Charisma-based character (for Diplomacy), the party shouldn't have much difficulty getting the information they need as long as they rely on NPCs a little.

At this point, I wouldn't worry too much. Your party comp is fine, the most important thing is just learning to work together as a team and everything should go smoothly.


That party looks like it's in great shape - the Knowledge (history)/Knowledge (local) weakness might hurt, but early on those skills mainly give you extra bits of lore. You've got all the party roles covered, so everything should be fine.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I personally don't see the Knowledge lacking as a problem. The times that they are plot critical like at the end of book 4 the games gives significant resources to help you around low/bad skills. Any other time those skills come up it is for fluff and a gm who wants you to enjoy the story and environment will give you that fluff through other means.


In the way of things, a PC will probably die at some point, so you might get to pick something else. And if Knowledge (or anything else) seems to be a problem, you can fix it then.

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