Grail of Twisted Desires

[Zapp]

Hi,

Thought to share my "expanded" Grail. Posted here because this is an AP specific item, and also because this is a GM only post.

In my view the name of the thingy is way cooler than its actual abilities. In short, given how the chance of at least one character participating in this AP being chaotic is close to 100%, this item amounts to three daily level 2 Restorations.

Nothing more, nothing less. No risk, no randomness. To me, that's somewhat of a missed opportunity, partly because of the cool name, partly because this item gets no story powers.

So instead I thought of the AP theme "recruit various people to your circus". Some of the people the players will want to recruit (as opposed to the NPCs specifically marked as recruitable by the adventure) have an evil alignment. In my case, the players made an honest effort of recruiting the carnival barker Ruanna Nyamma (page 17 of #2). It didn't lead to anything (the character rolled a natural 1) but still.

So here is a version of the Grail linked to Nocticula, the redeemer queen (and not coincidentally, a deity circus people might revere). You should easily see why Aroden clergy might find the item heretical and dangerous.

Comments welcome! :)

[Zapp]

Grail of Twisted Desires
Unique Conjuration Magical Invested
This timeworn chalice is constructed of dull tin. It has an unassuming appearance save for the gold, silver, and ebony rings that encircle its rim.

You gain a +1 bonus to skill checks related to furthering Nocticula’s edicts. By breaking one of Nocticula’s anathema you immediately become uninvested, and suffer Nocticula’s curse for one week.

Edicts: create art true to yourself, protect marginalized artists, punish those who take advantage of offered trust and shelter
Anathema: deny shelter to the desperate, destroy harmless art you dislike, finish a work of art during daylight hours
Curse: you are plagued with doubt in your own skills; you count as if untrained with Crafting, Performance, and one other skill themed to the event that brought on your curse (determined by the GM).

Activate 1-action envision; The chalice fills with wine. If the wine is not drunk within one minute it disappears. The chalice’s spell save DC is 29, though people coerced into drinking the wine get to treat the result of their check as one degree of success better. Then roll a d6, adding 1 if activated during daytime. If the result is equal to or greater than the “dormant” number, the chalice goes dormant (cannot activate) until sundown tomorrow.

Choose one effect:
Pleasant The wine is non-magical but of the highest quality. Dormant 7
Adapting The drinker is affected as if you cast a 1st-level adapt self spell on it. Dormant 6
Restoration The drinker is affected as if you cast a 2nd-level restoration spell on it. Dormant 5
Retribution The next time the drinker sleeps it is affected as if you cast a 4th-level nightmare spell on it. Dormant 4
Infatuation The drinker is affected as if you cast a 4th-level charm spell on it. Dormant 3
Restoration, greater The drinker is affected as if you cast a 4th-level restoration spell on it. Dormant 2
Redemption The drinker must make a Will save. Failure means its alignment shifts one step toward Chaotic (or to Chaotic Neutral if already Chaotic). This might allow the creature to renounce its former allegiances, but might also invoke the wrath of its allies or patrons. If the creature doesn’t desire the shift in alignment, the atone ritual might reverse the change. Once the drinker’s alignment becomes Chaotic Neutral you might persuade the drinker to become a follower of Nocticula. In doing so you gain a permanent ability boost for as long as the drinker lives as a follower to Nocticula. The chalice can only grant an ability boost for a given ability score to one creature at any one time. Dormant 1

[Riobux]

Very interesting idea that definitely spices up what is a throwaway grail, although I do have a bit of a weird lore-related grumble. About how Nocticula's Grail was justifiably locked away due to it being demon worship at the time, but does also create a strange oddness of how the grail's current effects reflects the current day Nocticula rather than past Nocticula when the grail was likely created. Although potentially explained away with "well, the grail was affected by Nocticula's change".

My mechanical small grumble (beyond how Redemption could lead to forcing an alignment change, damning clerics until they can get the atone ritual going) is I'm curious how the Infatuation effect would work if you triggered the chalice and then drunk its contents (i.e. casting Charm on yourself).

Definitely has piqued my interest since the GMPC (for when the party needed a cleric healer, so I made one for them) in the campaign is a Nocticula cleric who might take great interest in the relic.

[Zapp]

Thank you.

I can easily envision the grail's origin being tied to Nocticula's ascencion.

After all Ulthadar himself doesn't know what the room contains, so we know the golem and its treasure is "newer" than him.

I am personally having no problem making it as new as the "new" Redeemer Queen. I am not an expert sage on Pathfinder lore, however.

I can only make the case that winging it here have the great benefit of tying the story to the adventure theme - it allows heroes to seriously consider even chaotic evil NPCs, since they can be "redeemed".

[Zapp]

PS. Casting Charm on yourself changes your alignment to TN - True Narcissist

Everybody knows that ;)

[Riobux]

I unfortunately can't imagine the grail being tied to Nocticula's ascension. The text on page 38 of Book 2 reads "priests after [Ulthadar]'s time installed the doors and locks". The lore of the temple is after Aroden accidentally'ed to death once upon a time, the temple pretty much fell apart soon after and was left to rot. Ulthadar had died before Aroden's death, hence his ongoing denial that it had happened fuelling his ghost form.

While Nocticula was redeemed, I believe, in the Tyrant's Grasp AP only a year or three ago (in game and out of game). So we're talking about priests somehow sticking around for hundreds of years since Aroden's death until a few years ago as Nocticula ascended, then suddenly letting the temple rot in that time. I love your take, just unfortunately I'm a bit of a Pathfinder lore nut and it'd wind me up behind the scenes (even if my players wouldn't catch on).

Also, believe me, you don't need magic items to start redeeming CE and NE foes. My group recruited the boss at the top of the tower of Book 1 into the circus with just a bizarrely fantastic diplomacy roll.

It's still an amazingly thought out idea and I'd snatch it in a heartbeat if it wasn't making the lore feel bizarre. I originally thought maybe replacing it with Cayden Cailen so the wine makes sense, but again we are talking about a full one hundred years between Aroden's banana-peel slip into the afterlife and Cayden Cailen's ascension. If it was somehow Nocticula could affect the wine so it isn't as evil as it once was during her ascension, that could explain why everything is still locked up tight and why her item is more chaotic/redeeming than evil.

[Taedin]

Riobux wrote:

I originally thought maybe replacing it with Cayden Cailen so the wine makes sense, but again we are talking about a full one hundred years between Aroden's banana-peel slip into the afterlife and Cayden Cailen's ascension.

I must admit to some confusion here. Cayden Cailean ascended in 2765 AR, while Aroden met his fateful banana in 4706. They overlapped for quite a period of time, plenty of opportunity for some overly Lawful clerics of Aroden to get fussy about some Chaotic wine cup making a mess. I do agree that the Nocticula angle makes less sense, with her ascension being quite recent.

I might actually go the Cayden route, and have the self-important old ghost be positively SCANDALIZED by the thing. I do like Zapp's framework for the abilities on the thing, although might have to change some to fit the new deity. Something to reflect his love of parties and freedom... Hmm.

[Staffan Johansson]

I've come to the point of the adventure where the PCs have learned of the grail and that the priests locked it away guarded by a frickin' golem (IMC I'm replacing the clay golem with three glass golems, because I have a huge party). As written, I don't really see anything about the grail that would justify something like that.

I mean, the beneficial effect of the grail is essentially a 3/day restoration spell, with non-chaotic users facing the risk of getting a nightmare spell instead. A wand of restoration is a level 5 item worth 160 gp, and a bottomless stein is a level 2 item worth 25 gp. So I don't really see how this would be worthy as a level 10 item worth 850 gp.

The name also promises a lot that the actual stats don't deliver on. "Grail of Twisted Desires" sounds more like some wish-level stuff, with the wish being highly maliciously interpreted.

[Zapp]

Staffan Johansson wrote:

The name also promises a lot that the actual stats don't deliver on.

I fully agree and you're in luck - higher up in this very thread I wrote up a variant grail that imho comes much closer to being epic, given that it can create new Nocticula followers, that it can do so even out of Aroden priests, and also that it can provide bonuses that rival apex items to players investing in good role-play! :-)

[Staffan Johansson]

Zapp wrote:

Staffan Johansson wrote:

The name also promises a lot that the actual stats don't deliver on.

I fully agree and you're in luck - higher up in this very thread I wrote up a variant grail that imho comes much closer to being epic, given that it can create new Nocticula followers, that it can do so even out of Aroden priests, and also that it can provide bonuses that rival apex items to players investing in good role-play! :-)

I'm not sold on the Nocticula angle, both because the Grail pre-dates Aroden's death which in turn means it's definitely much older than Nocticula's ascension/redemption, and because I don't think any of my players cares about Nocticula. I thought of some other ideas, perhaps something like this:

Grail of Twisted Desires — Item 10
Unique, Conjuration, Enchantment, Healing, Necromancy, Magical, Mental
Price 1000 gp
Usage held in 1 hand; Bulk L

This timeworn chalice is constructed of dull tin. It has an unassuming appearance save for the gold, silver, and ebony rings that encircle its rim.

Activate Single Action envision; Frequency three times per day; Effect The chalice fills with one of three different wines of your choosing, as described below. The wine looks, tastes, and smells the same regardless of which type you choose, and detect magic has no effect on the liquid beyond indicating that it is magical. Drinking the wine is a single Interact action.
Wine of healing which, when imbibed, heals 5d6+20 hit points. This also nourishes you for the day.
Wine of recovery which, when imbibed, casts a 4th-level restoration spell on the drinker. It also attempts to counteract a single poison or disease affecting the drinker with a counteract modifier of +16 and a counteracting level of 4.
Wine of power which, when imbibed, grants the drinker a +1 status bonus to attack rolls, Perception checks, saving throws, and skill checks for 10 minutes. It also restores a single Focus point.

GM notes:
After a person drinks from the chalice, roll a die. This die is 1d4 if the drinker is lawful, 1d8 if the drinker is chaotic, or 1d6 if the drinker is neither. If the roll is less than or equal to the number of times the person has drunk from the chalice that day, they will suffer from horrible nightmares that night, leaving them fatigued the next day. In addition, they will suffer from a variety of effects depending on what wines they drank:
Wine of healing - drained 2, and will need twice as much food and drink the next day.
Wine of recovery - clumsy, enfeebled, or stupefied 2, whichever corresponds to the drinker's key ability score (if the drinker's key ability score is Constitution, they are enfeebled 1 and clumsy 1).
Wine of power - You gain one Focus point less during your daily preparations, and you are doomed 1.
All these penalties last until the drinker's next daily preparation. These are considered a 6th level curse with a counteract DC of 28.

If the drinker is not afflicted with nightmares after drinking, they will instead have vague dreams of wielding great power and enjoying the greatest of comforts and luxuries.

[Nanuk of the East]

After reading your ideas, I also want to make the grail a more dangerous item worth safeguarding. I think I’ll make it some kind of relic with powers that unlock. Heightening restoration seems like the natural course for the boons. But the bane should get nasty. Abyssal plague would fit with book 3, but the toolbox in that book contains a spell with a truly twisted desire. A cup that forces Ravening Maw on you, turning you cannibalistic, would surely be worth locking away.

I doubt the mechanics would ever come into play, given that the party has chaotic PCs, but it would freak my players out and give them a real dilemma whether to keep using and even carrying it.

[BoscoDM]

I also thought this item could be more twisted and desirable when I first read through. Now that my game is nearing this point, I like using the Cayden Cailean angle to make the most dangerous item a stick in the mud Arodenite can imagine.

Keeping the base simple to start, no randomness, no immediate danger, just a 3/day Restoration.

But I am making it into a sort of pseudo-intelligent item that judges the user. If it thinks you extol the virtues of Cayden Cailean, then it grants you his minor boon (a la Gods and Magic) for a short time, or very rarely his (single use) moderate boon. If it thinks you're lacking, same deal with his minor and moderate curse.

Finally, anyone who drinks from the chalice three times in the same day is hit with a Suggestion effect to go take the Test of the Starstone.

Yes, this can easily derail a campaign (especially one set in Absalom), which is what I want from an item with such a scary name. I look forward to one of my PCs trying to catch the next boat from Escadar to Absalom.

[Talanic]

My party has an extremely "Friar Tuck" cleric of Cayden Cailean so I'm going that way. Particularly because he is playing a practical ascetic. Low wealth, passes off gear to the party, spends most of his time blessing bars and stills and ministering to whoever will listen. His signature trick is the Great Guzzle, wherein he drained a keg onstage to salute and welcome the crowd. Etc.

So. Remaking it heavily including the name...

Grail of the Desperate Reveler

(Same appearance)

Anyone capable of casting Divine spells can use the Grail if their alignment is appropriate for a follower of Cayden Cailean, whether or not they do. By expending a prepared spell or divine font spell, the bearer of the Grail can cause the Grail to fill with enchanted wine. A friendly creature imbibing the wine is subjected to one of the following spells:

Restoration
Neutralize Poison
Remove Disease
Remove Curse

The effect produced by the Grail is heightened to the level of the spell expended. In addition, the enchanted wine is extremely potent; the imbiber consumes a number of doses of alcohol equal to the level of the spell expended and must save versus drunkenness using the caster's spell DC. Regardless of the number of failed saves, drunkenness from the Grail is not lethal; anyone who would die of intoxication from drinking from the Grail is instead unconscious for 1d4 days but suffers no further harm from the Grail.

Typing this while a passenger on a six hour drive. So please comment with critique. I think this should play well into the player's persona and has utility without being too powerful.