Whats is the diference between double slice (Fighter 1st level feat) and two-weapon flurry (fighter 14st level feat) ????
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Double Slice has you attack twice with a -2 penalty (or no penalty if your weapons are agile) for two actions.
Two-Weapon Flurry let's you attack twice as one action.
Two-Weapon Flurry let's you attack twice as one action.
But can I attack twice (once with each weapon), without penalty, even if I don't hold an agile weapon in my off-hand?
and how do these two attacks count for multiple attack penalties ??
"Requirements You are wielding two weapons, each in a different hand.
You lash out with both your weapons in a sudden frenzy. Strike twice, once with each weapon."
As the feat states, you must be wielding a weapon in each hand and must make one strike with each weapon.
The feat says nothing about MAP. That means (in this case and all other cases) that MAP applies normally, increasing after each strike.
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Exactly. Not increasing Multiple Attack Penalty is a special benefit that needs to be explicitly mentioned in an ability that gives you extra attacks, otherwise you don't get it.
The point of Double Slice is using two actions to make two attacks, but without increasing penalty.
The point of Two-Weapon Flurry is to attack twice, but at the cost of only one action. (Which is really useful when you also need actions for other stuff, like raising shields or moving around.)
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Also note that TWF has the Press trait, meaning it can't be your first attack in a turn.
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They're meant to work together.
Start w/ Double Slice then use the spare action for Two-Weapon Flurry.
Add Agile Grace & maybe Graceful Poise for what seems to be the expected set of offensive feats for that combat style.
The "Twin" feats would be the other half, though you'd only get one stance (hence the "maybe" above).
That said, Double Slice on its own can suffice for one's whole career, opening up lots of options, perhaps w/ a shield.
Remember that a shield can be used as a weapon too. Or rather, the shield boss or shield spike you can attach to one (and enchant as a weapon).
Currently playing a Kelish sword & board Fighter, who uses the shield bash as his first attack and a short sword as his Agile second weapon.
So while that are 2 d6 weapons instead of a single d10 or d12 weapon, the difference is that not taking the -5 MAP on the second attack means the average damage is not that much different between the two options (some guy did the math, can't find the link right now). And you get to use a shield, which you then can raise with your 3rd action and get that sweet +2 AC. Seeing that you can also block some damage for extra staying power, I consider that a good trade.
Of course, once Graceful Poise comes online, you can expect to be Hasted in some combats. If you sacrifice raising your shield, you can use Double Slice twice (it does not have the Flourish trait, unlike Power Attack) for a 0/0/-5/-5 attack routine. It also makes Weapon Supremacy very tempting.
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No. The extra action from Haste cannot be used in that way. It is limited to specific actions.
No. The extra action from Haste cannot be used in that way. It is limited to specific actions.
"Magic empowers the target to act faster. It gains the quickened condition and can use the extra action each round only for Strike and Stride actions."
Double Slice is a Strike action. Or rather, 2 Strike actions in one package. So this should count?
No. Double slice is a 2 action activity that contains 2 strike actions.
Subordinate Actions
An action might allow you to use a simpler action—usually one of the Basic Actions on page 469—in a different circumstance or with different effects. This subordinate action still has its normal traits and effects, but is modified in any ways listed in the larger action. For example, an activity that tells you to Stride up to half your Speed alters the normal distance you can move in a Stride. The Stride would still have the move trait, would still trigger reactions that occur based on movement, and so on. The subordinate action doesn’t gain any of the traits of the larger action unless specified. The action that allows you to use a subordinate action doesn’t require you to spend more actions or reactions to do so; that cost is already factored in.
Using an activity is not the same as using any of its subordinate actions. For example, the quickened condition you get from the haste spell lets you spend an extra action each turn to Stride or Strike, but you couldn’t use the extra action for an activity that includes a Stride or Strike. As another example, if you used an action that specified, “If the next action you use is a Strike,” an activity that includes a Strike wouldn’t count, because the next thing you are doing is starting an activity, not using the Strike basic action.
Aw man, it probably was too good to be true. Now I have to recalibrate damage expectancy for Fighter again. Seeing the kind of attack routines Rogues and Rangers can pull off at higher levels seems to put the Fighter in a slightly worse spot then.
Gotta see how much Two-Weapon Flurry can salvage there.
You can also use a weapon with the parry trait as well, you don't NEED a shield to gain extra AC, and some parry weapons are pretty good, I think it's an underrated trait. Also, the twin trait is rare at the moment, but I think some more weapons will have it with more books. Sword & Board doesn't have to be the go to anymore, I'm so glad ^.^
Sure, a Main Gauche is a good off-hand weapon and you can pair it with a d8 main weapon, but the Twin Parry feat doesn't happen before Lv 4. Until then you will be short 1 AC compared to a shield user.
On the other hand, who but the Fighters have the means to completely change combat styles almost on a whim? Double Slice will work from lvs. 1 to 20, as will Power Attack.
Duelling Parry happens as early as 2nd level and is a nice fall-back if your shield gets busted. Tides you over until level 4's Twin Parry.
Or go Bastard Sword from lv. 5 onward, make Swords your Master weapon. As long as you Double Slice, it will be still as good as an agile weapon with Expert proficiency. Enemy busts your shield? Go Duelling Parry and hit 2 points better, or change your grip and dish out d12 Power Attacks. The options are there.
Of course, in my current AoA game, my guy is a total Dragon fanboy, so he'll multiclass Wizard to chase the Dragon Form spell. Or become a Dragon Disciple. Looking forward to the APG.